My current plan is actually the opposite of what you propose. I would like to accumulate all incomes of a fief in the according bank and you will have to assign "money trains" (heavily guarded caravans) to transport this money to your treasury. This would hopefully also be introduced for lords, though i cannot tell yet, it simply requires more research.Is there plans to add your income and debt to the players weekly payroll chart?. Adding income from taxes from all acreage and all payments owed from all lenders to the weekly payroll chart, would be very convenient. Layout could be similar to how the businesses (Ex. Dye works.) you own in each town. If space is limited all the taxes could be added to a single line, same with debt. I realize that they are set for a bi-weekly income, I'm not sure if this is needed. Making it weekly (Halving the income of the bi-weekly income) with the payroll chart would be far easier than visiting each town similar to the old Mount & Blade days of collecting taxes. I feel this takes away from the kingdom game play aspect, having the King/Queen to do their own tax collection errands. As a privateer it's not role breaking but a pain. I have other ideas regarding economy but that's for another thread.
Duh said:Currently there is no plan to introduce additional costs to acres. We might however add the possibility of lords claiming your lands, when they sack a city.
My current plan is actually the opposite of what you propose. I would like to accumulate all incomes of a fief in the according bank and you will have to assign "money trains" (heavily guarded caravans) to transport this money to your treasury. This would hopefully also be introduced for lords, though i cannot tell yet, it simply requires more research.Is there plans to add your income and debt to the players weekly payroll chart?. Adding income from taxes from all acreage and all payments owed from all lenders to the weekly payroll chart, would be very convenient. Layout could be similar to how the businesses (Ex. Dye works.) you own in each town. If space is limited all the taxes could be added to a single line, same with debt. I realize that they are set for a bi-weekly income, I'm not sure if this is needed. Making it weekly (Halving the income of the bi-weekly income) with the payroll chart would be far easier than visiting each town similar to the old Mount & Blade days of collecting taxes. I feel this takes away from the kingdom game play aspect, having the King/Queen to do their own tax collection errands. As a privateer it's not role breaking but a pain. I have other ideas regarding economy but that's for another thread.
As for the economy - celestialred and me (with the support of caba, windy and monnikje) are currently working on an economy overhaul. This will take time, but once we are done, it should offer a lot more to traders and the like.
The exchange routes you put forth for the AI sound about right. The player should be able to fully customize where what money is going or not going.RadialPower said:Money Train:
I like this idea as it has much potential. Money train would add more to kingdom planning and realism. The location of castles and towns you capture for your kingdom if spread out would invite enemies to raid (similar to fiefs) your money trains. Protection of your money trains and raiding enemy money trains (new income source) will be great fun. What do you have in mind on their exchange routes (fiefs > castles > capital or bank/ fiefs > towns > capital or bank)? As a privateer owning acreage and businesses, how will this money train work without having a capital or bank?, or just the Warband direct deposit? See Banking for suggestions.
This might be added far in the future. Currently we are just done with the main design phase of the eco overhaul and once production and demand values have been determined, coding will begin. The concept is down below and before anybody gets excited - its very uncertain whether this will be in 2.6. I plan to release a native test version to see how the economy is doing without floris and then i ll have to retest and rebalance things for floris.RadialPower said:Supply and Demand:
I would love to meld your landownership and vanilla/possible new businesses together. Example: Wheat field = grain (landowner/farm from acreage/amount of acreage = higher yield) > Mill = flour (business) > Bakery = bread (business) making bread the end product, while still being able to sell flour for income just not as much as finished product (bread). Being able to own all aspects making a closed loop ( ya, I know played too much X3 TC/AP), making income from product and loss from materials,workforce and possibly taxes. Having natural resources modifiers for each town. Example: Suno would have a resource modifier to farm land giving crops a greater yield at reduced price rates because of the abundance of crops. Both examples working together would yield the greatest income to the owner. I could come up with many more examples if you wish.
Might add this if i have time. Its basically just another layer adding to what you receive as rent, dont necessarily see the benefit of it, but never say neverRadialPower said:Taxes:
As a privateer (non king/queen) or freelancer (soldier) owner of land and business to pay a percentage of my income to the kingdom where my land and business are located. As a king/ queen be exempt from paying taxes (good and crooked similar to moderns times ) within my own lands. As king/queen land and business ownership in allied kingdoms would still be able to operate but be taxed (or not depends how crooked you wanna get) by other factions, while enemy would seize your lands, businesses and any income. As a king/queen being able tax all aspects of your kingdom would be realistic (Ruler sets taxes low to high similar to 2.5. Example: low taxes could yield popularity bonuses or population increase in towns, while high could do the opposite) and just plain fantastic.
Moneylenders and Landowners are the banks of Floris. You can find them in every town. There wont be any additional banks.RadialPower said:Banking:
Hmm, banking as in 2.5 is that chest I leave in the battlefield and a magical piece of paper I see as my income/payroll. I have read about banks and the removal of banks from Floris, being replacement by landowners and moneylenders. I would suggest a bank in every town, with a private account. This would be useful as an privateer (non king/queen) or freelancer (soldier). Money could be stored in your account and removed for a number of reasons (troop payment/taxes or you saved up for that Masterwork English Longsword). Another bonus to banking your excess money, would be to lose a battle and become captive losing all the money on your character at the time of battle. Borrowing money can be made possible with a loan (similar to lenders in 2.5), paying a percentage on the amount borrowed weekly. Capping the amount borrowed would be advisable. Kingdoms would have there own banking system simply called the treasury as it is now. The treasury would gain income from taxes from all lands and businesses, expenses being building projects/kingdom staff/all kingdom troop wages. Other than the mentioned use for banks (simplified banking) they could be exploited like previous attempts. Banks should not be obtainable for ownership, just as money storage. Better than magical chests?
Duh said:As i mentioned before, we want to achieve a dynamic economy, which relies on several interdependent factors (population, prosperity, production and demand). I will start off with something that i released a bit back - a medieval "bank" system: http://mbmodwiki.ollclan.eu/Bank . While this is not directly related to the economy overhaul, it is what gave me the idea and it includes some of the many factors, which the economy system will hopefully feature. I assign cities a population (8000-12000 at game start for normal cities and 18-22k for capitols), which changes over time depending on prosperity (within a range of 5k-30k),
This will need a lot of tweaking on a trial and error basis, but it is the raw system for the dynamic population.Code:(try_for_range, ":town_no", towns_begin, towns_end), # Floris // Adjust Population Depending on Prosperity (party_get_slot, ":prosperity", ":town_no", slot_town_prosperity), (party_get_slot, ":population", ":town_no", slot_center_population), (assign,":change",0), (try_begin), (ge, ":prosperity", 60), (store_sub, ":change", ":prosperity",60), (val_div, ":change", 5), (val_add, ":change", 3), (else_try), (le, ":prosperity", 40), (store_sub, ":change", ":prosperity", 40), (val_div, ":change", 5), (val_sub, ":change", 3), (try_end), (store_div,":base",":population",100), # Base population change is 1% of pop (val_mul,":change",":base"), (val_add,":population", ":change"), (try_begin), (gt, ":population", 30000), (assign, ":population", 30000), (party_set_slot, ":town_no", slot_center_population, ":population"), (else_try), (lt, ":population", 5000), (assign, ":population", 5000), (party_set_slot, ":town_no", slot_center_population, ":population"), (else_try), (party_set_slot, ":town_no", slot_center_population, ":population"), (try_end), (try_end),
While i suck at drawing, visual means do help to further the understanding and i think this will give you a good overview of the whole setup:
You already saw how we are influencing a population via prosperity, so next we will take a look at the relationship between prosperity, population and demand.
The basic formula goes like so:Code:#script_game_calculate_demand_for_item #Eco overhaul ("game_calculate_demand_for_item", [ (store_script_param, ":center_no", 1), (store_script_param, ":item_no", 2), (party_get_slot, ":population", ":center_no", slot_center_population), (party_get_slot, ":prosperity", ":center_no", slot_town_prosperity), (val_div, ":population", 200), (item_get_slot, ":value", ":item_no", slot_item_value), # cheap/normal/expensive - 1/2/3 (item_get_slot, ":rural_demand", ":item_no", slot_item_rural_demand), (item_get_slot, ":urban_demand", ":item_no", slot_item_urban_demand), (item_get_slot, ":desert_demand", ":item_no", slot_item_desert_demand), (try_begin), (party_get_current_terrain, ":terrain", ":center_no"), # Desert (eq, ":terrain", 5), (try_begin), (item_slot_ge, ":item_no", slot_item_desert_demand, 0), #Otherwise use rural or urban (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":desert_demand"), (else_try), (party_slot_eq, ":center_no", slot_party_type, spt_village), (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":rural_demand"), (else_try), (party_slot_eq, ":center_no", slot_party_type, spt_castle), (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":rural_demand"), (else_try), (party_slot_eq, ":center_no", slot_party_type, spt_town), (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":urban_demand"), (try_end), (else_try), (try_begin), (party_slot_eq, ":center_no", slot_party_type, spt_village), (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":rural_demand"), (else_try), (party_slot_eq, ":center_no", slot_party_type, spt_castle), (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":rural_demand"), (else_try), (party_slot_eq, ":center_no", slot_party_type, spt_town), (store_mul, ":item_demand", ":population", ":urban_demand"), (try_end), (try_end), (try_begin), (eq, ":value", 3), (val_mul, ":item_demand", ":prosperity"), (val_div, ":item_demand", 10), (else_try), (eq, ":value", 2), (val_mul, ":item_demand", ":prosperity"), (val_div, ":item_demand", 2), (try_end), (assign, reg1, ":item_demand"), ]),
Demand for an item in a fief = Population/200 x urban/rural/desert demand
That is then modified if the item is classified as a normal or expensive good.
I.e. Demand for an expensive item in town = Population/200 x urban demand /100 x Prosperity/10
This is only a first approach and we still have to determine how much of a good a certain population demands (and produces).
While the general goal is to have a slowly growing economy, which is set back by hostile actions, we do want to have some sort of upper limit for what a fief can achieve. This is where demand comes in - basically every fief can produce enough to provide for its population, if it has a normal prosperity. The moment a fiefs prosperity grows the demand grows disproportional to the fiefs production capacity (population x some factor) and if the discrepancy between what is produced and what is demanded grows too large, then population will begin to decrease until the population added to the fief because of prosperity = the population leaving the fief due to non-satisfied demand. This would allow for interesing decisions by the player - do i focus my fiefs production capacity on certain goods to improve prosperity or do i use their production capacity to satisfy demand (possibly even to further pop growth)?
Before we look at how demand and production (supply) influence prosperity, i need to explain a bit about how we are going about with the allocation of goods and trade.
Fiefs live in a somewhat closed economic system with their bound centers and provide each other with ressources, we havent yet decided/figured out how to cause "rich village -> rich town" and vice versa, but the basic thought is that as long as the production of goods exceeds the use (demand) of goods, there will be economic growth (prosperity). This allows for interesting setups with what a fief demands and what it can produce, which enables us coders to largely influence prosperity and population development (even to randomize it up to a point at every game start). The surplus goods would be stored in slots and either directly be transferred into prosperity if a certain treshold is reached or it would be exported, once a caravan visits the city. The global market (trade pool) can only be accessed through caravans, which means that villages can only trade with their city and castles have no way to interact with the global market (though im not sure whether im happy with that), while cities can export and import from other areas in the world. This influences prosperity in a rather simple manner - Change is based on the difference between import (demanded goods available in the global market) and export (surplus goods, which werent translated into prosperity yet).
Code wise our design goes somewhat like this:
- the caravan trigger is altered to execute the global trade instead of the native trade code when in city
- every 2 weeks the bank presentation pops up. To hide potential lag, we will calculate local production, demand, growth, recession and surplus goods within this presentation.
- hostile actions (raids/sieges) will feature negative consequences for prosperity and population
- prices and amount of goods in a vendor are determined by how many (and to what extent) demands are satisfied in a fief
An old setup, which assumed that the global market was always available to all fiefs did things like this:
Code:(store_sub, ":num_centers", centers_end, centers_begin), #if you're only doing towns or whatever, will need appropriate adjustments #Shuffle centers (try_for_range, ":i", 0, ":num_centers"), #creates a list by populating trp_temp_array's slots from 0 to num_centers with the centers' party_ids (store_add, ":center_no", ":i", centers_begin), (troop_set_slot, "trp_temp_array_a", ":i", ":center_no"), (try_end), (call_script, "script_shuffle_troop_slots", "trp_temp_array_a", 0, ":num_centers"), #now the list made above is randomized (try_for_range, ":i", 0, ":num_centers"), #do stuff with the randomized list (troop_get_slot, ":center_no", "trp_temp_array_a", ":i"), (is_between, ":center_no", centers_begin, centers_end), #probably unnecessary, but if you're nervous for bug prevention #do stuff with ":center_no" # (try_end), # (try_for_range, ":center_no", centers_begin, centers_end), #Possibly divide between big city trade and village/castle - city interaction? (party_get_slot, ":prod_capacity", ":center_no", slot_production_capacity), (try_for_range, ":item_no", "itm_spice", "itm_siege_supply"), # Only do this for the items demanded by the center // rural/urban/desert check or split (call_script, "script_game_calculate_demand_for_item", ":center_no", ":item_no"), #Item demand for center returned in reg1 #CURRENT MAIN PROBLEM is that no randomization takes place // every time the same fiefs gets the first deal (assign, ":demand", reg1), (item_get_slot, ":trade_pool", ":item_no", slot_trade_pool),# Check trade pool and conduct trade accordingly to demand and available credits (item_get_slot, ":value", ":item_no", slot_item_value), (party_get_slot, ":trade_credits", ":center_no", slot_trade_credits), (store_mul, ":cost_demand", ":demand", ":value"), (store_div, ":afford_num", ":trade_credits", ":cost_demand"), #Game rounds down -> 1/2 -> 0 (try_begin), (gt, ":afford_num", ":trade_pool"), #Safety check, cant buy more than available (assign, ":afford_num", ":trade_pool"), (try_end), (store_mul, ":cost_afford", ":afford_num", ":value"), (val_sub, ":trade_credits", ":cost_afford"), #(party_set_slot, ":center_no", slot_trade_credits, ":trade_credits"), - done further down (val_sub, ":demand", ":afford_num"), #Updates demand according to trade conducted (val_sub, ":trade_pool", ":afford_num"), #Updates tradepool according to trade conducted # Use production capacity to satisfy left over demand (store_mul, ":prod_cost", ":demand", ":value"), (val_sub, ":prod_capacity", ":prod_cost"), #Update Production capacity according to use (try_end), # Use left over production capacity for speciality production (party_get_slot, ":spec_item", ":center_no", slot_speciality_item), (assign, ":amount", ":prod_capacity"), #This could be divided by sth. but for now its poor production regardless of value (item_get_slot, ":trade_pool_2", ":spec_item", slot_trade_pool), (val_add, ":trade_pool_2", ":amount"), # Transfer speciality export into trade pool and add trade credits accordingly (item_set_slot, ":spec_item", slot_trade_pool, ":trade_pool_2"), # Adds exported goods to trade pool (item_get_slot, ":value_2", ":spec_item", slot_item_value), (val_mul, ":amount", ":value_2"), (val_add, ":trade_credits", ":amount"), (party_set_slot, ":center_no", slot_trade_credits, ":trade_credits"),# Adds credits for exported goods (try_end), (display_message, "@Neo Test done."),
The assets show you what has accumulated in a town. Balance is what you will get after a 2 week period has passed. As long as assets are at 0, there is no money to be gotten in a town.cifer said:How do i extract the savegame so you can use it?
You don't need a screenshot, but I can try to provide. It simply says 0 at assets, I think, and the normal amount I should receive is still standing there (around 700 or something i should receive for my acres), but once I get to the town and talk to the landowners I get no money, and that has been for 2 payments so far. Didn't want to continue to not lose any more money.
I'm just using the released 2.5 mod (Have been playing 2.4 until 2 weeks ago or so). I didn't use any other mods or beta stuff. Just downloaded and used it like I used 2.4.
Like I said, it worked normally but suddenly I didn't receive any payments. I have no faction for now, didn't get caught or lost any fights.
(try_begin),
(party_get_slot, ":assets", "$current_town", slot_assets),
(troop_add_gold, "trp_player", ":assets"),
(party_set_slot, "$current_town", slot_assets, 0),
(try_end),
Possibly, but since it also tracks debt and deadline, the weekly pop up is quite justified.halfeclipse said:The ledger pops up once a week, while it only pays every two. Perhaps that's causing some confusion?