How to play with Kherigits? Help please.

[Stellini]

Hi everyone. Basically I started a new game and decided to play as HA and being Khergit vassal. The only problem is that I don't know what I should be doing to make them sort of circle the enemy and shoot at them. I have a whole party of around 66 of khergit horse archers and some 6 companions. Is it solid to have full army cavalry for open battles? And what about sieges? I don't know this is my first game which I managed to get this far. Also any tips how to make the Horse Archers shoot the enemy and not charging straight on are welcome. Thanks for the help, I appreciate. Also, if it actually does something, I am using the Mod : NAtive Mod Compilation, in which there is an option to "fix" NPC horse archers. It is ticked on but I don't know if it is making any difference. 

 

[wrc]

Hi everyone. Basically I started a new game and decided to play as HA and being Khergit vassal. The only problem is that I don't know what I should be doing to make them sort of circle the enemy and shoot at them. I have a whole party of around 66 of khergit horse archers and some 6 companions. Is it solid to have full army cavalry for open battles? And what about sieges? I don't know this is my first game which I managed to get this far. Also any tips how to make the Horse Archers shoot the enemy and not charging straight on are welcome. Thanks for the help, I appreciate. Also, if it actually does something, I am using the Mod : NAtive Mod Compilation, in which there is an option to "fix" NPC horse archers. It is ticked on but I don't know if it is making any difference. 

Skirmish mod(formation) is what you need(horse archers are avoiding direct attacks and forced to use bows),it's a part of the PBOD mod.I don't know is it PBOD part of Native Mod Compilation though,or are they compatible at all!

 

[Stellini]

Thanks for the reply. Yes PBMOD is part of Native Mod compilation. I will try it out now and see how it works. Thanks again 

 

[hruza]

I will speak about native since I am not using any mods:

AI does not handle horse archers very well. AI of this game is pretty simple, most probably result of large amount of NPC you can have fighting each other at one time. Something more sophisticated would most probably kill framerate.

Unfortunately horse archery is type of combat at which AI is at its worst. Problem is also that maps are not large enough for this type of combat.

That sad horse archers are still useful if employed in certain ways.

First of all, do not set number of soldiers on battlefield too high. It would just overcrowd maps even more than they are. I keep it at 60 personally.

Do not use force entirely composed of horsearchers. They will be destroyed. Horsearcher is support unit and maximum I would put in to my army is 50% not more. 30% ratio is even better. Train rest of your soldiers in to lancers (good and cheap heavy cavalry).

As for tactic here is what works for me:

Keep horsearchers in separate group so you can command them efectively.

If enemy is advancing in formation, I order my horsearchers to the right flank of enemy formation (one unprotected by shields). Then I order my heavy cavalry to charge front of the formation. Unless enemy threatens position of my horsearchers, I let them stand their ground and shoot while my other forces are engaged in hand to hand. Once combat turns in to total chaos (with reinforcements entering and units chasing each other all over the place) I order horsearchers to charge as well. They are on their own from then on.

If enemy charges strait on me, I order first my heavy cavalry to countercharge and order horsearchers in only once enemy is engaged.

Idea is to prevent horsearchers from charging strait on enemy, especially formed enemy. Which they do no matter what you do. Best way to do it is by ordering them to not charge at all instead holding some ground, using them like very fast foot archers (they are most accurate while stationary anyway). Another principle I try to employ with them is to get them as close to enemy as it is safe and let them shoot at exposed enemy (shield wise) ...this can be done by flanking enemy formation or letting them to shoot at enemy fighting your other units.

There are people who order their horsearchers to follow and lead them personally across battlefield. I don't do it as it prevents you from engaging in combat effectively yourself.

Horsearchers also make good food archers, so if situation requires, do not hesitate to dismount them. That means they are also good (even if somehow expensive) ranged unit for sieges (both offence and defence). Their effectiveness is bit dumped by fact that some of them spawn with javelins not bows.

Still, you should accept that there will be some looses among your horsearchers.

 

[Filou]

I personally don't like playing with Khergit troops when I'm a horse archer.  HA on proper skirmish mode run in all directions and randomly appear between my target and I, which often meant that I shot my own guys.  Even melee cav got in the way, since I found it impossible to keep track of all of them before taking shots.
So I prefer limiting the amount of mounted troops when playing a HA.

Problem is also that maps are not large enough for this type of combat.

It's pretty easy to use TweakMB to increase the size of battle maps.  I've upped them all to the maximum size of forest maps and it gives a much better feeling.  That and increasing the battle size to 270.

 

[JosieJ]

I'd definitely get some lancers: they should be the core of your army and horse archers should be more of a support troop.

Somebody once posted a really neat graphic of a combat tactic for horse archers; I don't know where to find the graphic, but I can tell you about the combat tactic since I used it myself.  Have everyone follow you and charge straight at the enemy.  Just before you get there, tell your lancers to charge and  you swerve at the last minute to go around the enemy.  Since you're the one out in front and, thus, occupying their attention, they'll turn to follow you.  Meanwhile, your lancers will crash into their unprotected backs/sides and cause mayhem.  Once you're behind them and the enemy is in disarray, tell the HAs to charge and they'll skirmish and pick off fleeing units.  Try to swerve to your right if you can, so that the enemy units present their sword arms to your lancers rather than their shielded sides. 

As a Khergit, your strength will be in the field.  Your units, while serviceable, lag behind shielded infantry and foot archers/crossbowmen in sieges.  You should try to engage the enemy in the open field as much as you can: decimate your enemies enough and they will not be able to field strong armies to rush to a garrison's defense.  Then you'll have the breathing space you need to besiege fiefs.