how to make spamming less effective?

[possum]

hello,

i have no idea how to do it, every idea i had has beed rejected by the majority

now lets collect some ideas what can be done to get rid of that problem.

 

[robbyg]

1) Play on servers with melee friendly fire set to ON.

2) If your timing, footwork needs improvement, work on that.

3) With your new found skills, outskill a spammer (guilty of that myself!) and kill the swine.

Im in favour of a stamina bar as another idea - it DOES make sense and doesnt have to come from the Pro-Realism Crowd even tho it makes the game less arcadey.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

From what I see, spamming is only effective against new players. So if you want to make spamming less effective, improve your own personal skill.

I would also like you to point me to a server where spamming is too good. Which server is that? Because whenever I play, no one spams.


(Note: Deathmatch servers are "spam servers" by default, so I really hope you're not trying to balance multiplayer with deathmatch in mind.)

 

[xwhitemousex]

Spamming is a bit more effective than it really should be, and doubly so if you are using axes.

I very, very often see people, especially with 2H axes, just flailing wildly because they know as soon as your shield is gone the shifty blocking in this game isn't gonna help you.

What I would like to see is a slightly longer stun as a result from successfully blocking or parrying an enemy attack. Look at singleplayer for instance, when an NPC strikes at you, you can immediately strike back and hit them, because they are slightly stunned. Maybe this is already implemented in multiplayer, but I honestly have yet to experience it ingame (maybe not doable because of latency and such?)

In any regards, with a slight stun like that, spamming attacks against a shield would mean an open invitation to get a sword sheated in your eyesocket and people would be less inclined to do it after a few deaths.

Also, I'm thinking the kick should have slightly longer range than today. The kick is nice in singleplayer because the NPC's have a habit of hugging you tight. In Multiplayer though the kick is largely impotent unless you manage to corner an enemy or pin them between other players (both friend and foes).

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

I'm not going to go into pointless debates. I asked nicely, to what game server I need to go to see this weapon spam, and what do I need to look at? 1H axes? 2H axes? 2H weapons in general? Just tell me what server.

 

[Zues]

The easiest way to deal with a spammer in my experience is to do the frowned upon kick-slash. Simply wait until your opponent is in range swinging their long axe, block, kick, then immediately attack, preferably with an overhead attack. Spamming problem solved!

Spamming is a bit more effective than it really should be, and doubly so if you are using axes.

I very, very often see people, especially with 2H axes, just flailing wildly because they know as soon as your shield is gone the shifty blocking in this game isn't gonna help you.

You will find as you get better at manual blocking that the "shifty" blocking in the game is far more effective than a shield when fighting a 1 on 1 battle. It just takes practice

 

[possum]

I'm not going to go into pointless debates.

ok.

back to topic.

there is a difference between 1h and 2h spamming. with a fast 1h weapon they strike that fast that you sometimes cant start a counter attack because of the knockback-effect. happend to me a few times, everytime i tried to kick or strike the spam-attack was faster. dunno how that could be.

the mein problem with 2h spamming is the fast mouseturning while attacking to speed up the strike. usually you would break your legs or fell to the ground if you would try this
especially if some ppl have the best armor on they dont even care about evading or parrying, they just run, swing their 2h weapon and turn their mouse as fast as possible.

i still think that the stamina idea is a good one, i already wrote it a few days before but it has been slammed down by nearly everyone. seems like many prefer the arcade gamestyle.

 

[22nd_Chuck_Norris]

to combat a shield user, walk backwards untill he follows you in a straight line, then press E, and strike his face afterwards
vs a 2handed, just chamber block his attack into his head.
Gl and have fun !

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

Stamina is bad because it's a restriction. Bonus systems work better in general, like "adrenaline" which builds up slowly rather than stamina which drains you slowly.


As for weapon spamming, what server?

 

[TRuBi]

They could add stamina depending on the STR stat, that is used when you attack. And when its empty you cant attack, or you attack slower, so you'll eventually become easier to counter.

Also heavier weapons (2 handed) use more stamina, giving them that nerf everyone is asking for.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

So game should encourage camping and less action? It's not like battles last for hours.

 

[Marmalade]

As for weapon spamming, what server?

To be fair to the guy, there's a lot of it around. I was playing on a public server which had melee FF turned off, and there was one chap who just had a two handed axe, and just swung it to the right every time.

One on one he was toast, obviously, but he kept himself in crowds and managed to end up with a pretty decent score (TDM).

Spammers are not as much of a problem as is made out - there are many ways to deal with them - but it's a pretty effective strategy early on.

 

[tintontoe]

Block and slash.

 

[Shadow0]

Last spammer I saw got a 2hander implanted in his skull. The one before that got a bolt in his head. The one before that got a few arrows in his chest. The one before that got an axe in his sword arm (wasn't me that time).
The only really problematic ones are the ones that keep close to their team and blindside you, in which case you and possibly some others on your team aren't doing something right. Got archers on the lookout? have them take out the pest, its a free shot in most cases. Try blindsiding THEM instead, I've tried, its actually damn easy if you watch out for the attacks hit area (might accidentally walk into it and take the hit for the team).

 

[possum]

adrenaline would be the absolute wrong way, through spamming you would gather it fast just to be able to spam even faster? or did i misunderstood you?

@ many other:

please, we are not talking about how great we are and how easy we can kill a spammer. arrows, bolts, sure it all can be done but there is no archer near everytime you face a spammer and not everyone will fire into a melee fight with ff on at 100%.

we are here to collect ideas how to weaken spamming. i guess 80% of the players are just playing for fun and if we allow them to get killed by blind spamming players we will be soon alone on the server.

to explain the stamina idea: it wont make you go tired after the first one or two strikes, the idea behind it was to do something against the perma-spammers, this mean 10 or 20 srtikes in a row, spam-kil one, attack the next immideatly, spam-kill him, attack the next one.... (yes just agree that he would be able to spam-kill the three and none of them was a weapon master )

 

[TakeYourProzac]

i guess 80% of the players are just playing for fun and if we allow them to get killed by blind spamming players we will be soon alone on the server.

This is a great point, and one that bears remembering. Most players, myself included, are not interested in sitting in front of their computer for hours to master a series of twitch reflexes. I always despair at the 'get better' response because it makes the game more exclusive, more likely to drive new players away.

For my money, two handed spamming is a bit of an issue, simply because I find it so easy to do. As a cavalry player, I'm middle of the pack; once I grab a two handed axe and get off the horse, top three easily. Once you have a feel for the blocking, and how to use block to quickly cancel an attack and come back from a different direction, two handed weapons are easily the best weapon in the game. At least that's been my experience.

As for ideas on how to fix this, increasing the time between swings is, I think, the quickest fix. It doesn't require adding new mechanics or anything, just have the weapon hold for a moment after the swing has been completed. This way the weapon is still dangerous, can still mess up shields and so lots of damage, but if you go around swinging at people's feet willy nilly you'll leave yourself extremely open to someone who can count the time between swings.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

to be fair to the guy, there's a lot of it around. I was playing on a public server which had melee FF turned off

And? Turn FF on. When FF is turned off, that's a huge sign saying "SPAMMING-FRIENDLY SERVER". I see nothing wrong with that.

we are here to collect ideas how to weaken spamming. i guess 80% of the players are just playing for fun and if we allow them to get killed by blind spamming players we will be soon alone on the server.

This is a complete twist of reality. Those who spam are those who play for fun, and these are usually new players. What do you think, that new players who play for fun do feints, manual blocks, and what not? No, they spam attacks. It's the only way for them to score the kill. Perhaps they don't want to learn more, or they don't have time. So spamming gives them kills. But not against experienced players, only other new players.


You still didn't tell me to what server should I go to witness this spamming.


ps: And I disagree that multiplayer should be balanced with lowest common denominator in mind. 2H weapons are more or less fine, multiplayer balance is great, and in semi-organized teamwork you almost never see 2H spam. Go play Battle instead of Deathmatch, and you will rarely see people with 2H running around.
And when they do, what do you expect, 2H to suck so much that it's useless?

As a cavalry player, I'm middle of the pack; once I grab a two handed axe and get off the horse, top three easily.

Yea sure, where, in Deathmatch? Play real games, like Battle. Cav in the middle of the pack = RiP.

 

[HTAPAWASO]

The comment about new players being scared off by spamming goes both ways...

On the one hand, new players who can't block that well will be weak against spammers
On the other hand, new players who can't block that well may only be able to get kills by spamming

I think it's fine how it is.
Whether you get rid of it or not, experienced players will still beat new players nearly every time. Just the way it works in a game with such detailed combat - it takes time to learn it.

 

[possum]

i play for fun, i learned how to feint, block and parry but blind spamming is still to effective for me. so what am i?

ther server? just try a few different server and you will find them.

sorry but i will stop reading your posts, i know now that you are absolutly against the change and i want to collect the ideas how we could reduce it, the discussion about the pro and con will follow later. for me it feels like you are either a absolute pro who has no problems to deal with the spammer or you are a hardcore spammer who is afraid to lose his/hers advantage on the battlefield.

current ideas:

stamina
lager breaks between the hits
"stun" after beeing blocked

 

[Nedews]

Spammers are not a problem. It is not effective to spam. If it is effective to you it is because the ones you fighting have not learned to fight spammers correctly. (Block?)

That's my experience from playing all modes except deathmatches.