How to lose relations with a faction

[Uther]

...Without first serving as a vassal to a liege or doing anything dishonorable (e.g. looting villages, attacking caravans or neutral parties). I want to start my own kingdom, but these two restrictions pose a problem. Would recruiting a lord piss off his previous faction? Is it even possible to do when you still have no fiefs or kingdom to speak of? Alternatively, if my relations with a lord are high, can I assist him in battle against enemy faction? (thereby hopefully losing relations with it).

 

[sirballington]

No way to start your own kingdom without besieging a castle/town ("outposts"), and no way to do that before pissing off the other faction, and no way to piss off the other faction without doing anything "dishonorable".

Recruiting a lord gives them casus bolli to declare war against you, but you can only recruit a lord if you have your own faction, i.e taking over an outpost. So you're still back to square one.

You cannot assist a lord in battle unless you're attached to a faction (mercenary or vassal). Your only choice is "don't get involved, because the battlefield is not the appropriate place to make a political statement by joining one side or the other on a whim."

If you really want to avoid dishonorable actions, you'll have to turn to modding. This tweak lets you besiege outposts even if they are friendly or neutral to you. It's really no more dishonorable than attacking a friendly caravan (unless you meant it in the literal game sense, as in lose honor points), just a lot less tedious/silly.

 

[zajuts149]

I find that just doing some "light brigandage" gets the job done. You don't need to attack the caravan. You just need to demand "Toll money". That sets you back a few points in relationship and you can siege and take one of their castles. This only works if your not in their faction, of course.

 

[Uther]

Oh, that sucks. If I opt to serve as a mercenary to a liege, will it be possible to start my own kingdom without losing honor? I recall reading that you can persuade the king to release you from your vows.

 

[zajuts149]

You can. You'll lose rep with the king, and possibly the entire faction. Not sure about honour, but I would find it likely. You are breaking your word, after all. Best way to break free is to grab an enemy castle while at war, and rebel when the king doesn't grant it to you afterwards.
releasing of wows only counts when you're a vassal.

 

[JosieJ]

If I recall correctly, you can only ask the king to release you from your vow if you're a vassal, not a mercenary.

You don't lose honor if you extort money from caravans and don't actually fight them.  I usually try to do this so that I keep my siege army fresh for whatever castle/town I've set my eye on.  You only lose 1 point of relation with the kingdom, though, so if you don't want to have to go around looking for more caravans to extort, you'll have to start out with a blank slate (0 relation) with the kingdom.

 

[pollyanna]

You can attack a fort or town that you aren't enemies with if you use the "cheatmenu" function.  Usually i wouldn't play with cheats but i use this sometimes if i want to take a fort without killing some poor farmers, since it doesn't make sense my vengeful dishonorable bandit queen would be so polite and chivalrous as to become your formal enemy before sneak attacking your castle   

 

[Yohan]

You can do it honorably.

Do not ever become a vassal, which would require you to renounce your oath of allegiance at some point. (and take a -20 relationship hit with the King). Remain a mercenary until you are ready to create your kingdom. Then when your contract ends, do not renew it. You are now free of your bond. Find a lord from the faction you want to be at war with, meet him on the field and say "I'm here to deliver my demands", and "surrender or die". You will take a big relationship hit with that lord (-30 ), but no loss of honor. After the battle you will be at war with the faction.

That's how I do it in my games, as I also like to play as an honorable warlord  (as much as possible in this setting, anyway  ) .This way you are not an oathbreaker, and no civilians are harmed.