How much time do you think its going to take TW to acknowledge this game is boring and repetitive?

Currently viewing this thread:

Came to see if game is finally worth playing since the cluster**** release and hectic patching afterwards.

Saw this post, read it, ok, leaving for half a year again.
After the upcoming hotix, today or tomorrow, it should actually be pretty ok to play it. But if you can stand waiting another 6 months before playing, then for sure do it
 
After the upcoming hotix, today or tomorrow, it should actually be pretty ok to play it. But if you can stand waiting another 6 months before playing, then for sure do it
Bugs is one thing, second this is content.

If clan & kingdom mechanics are still not fully implemented and some additional immersion added to the game, it will be boring for me to play whack a mole again.
 

Kharille

Knight at Arms
I don't play native much. Want to get back into my diplomacy game. Completed the game on Gekokujo 3.1 with suguroku 3.1, twice because of a bug in the first game.

Not complaining since I still want to finish warband Perisno 1.001 and Brytenwalda, and to figure out prophesy of pendor...
 

lukkyb

Veteran
i feel peoples view on warband native has been tantied with mods that people played the most (i would only ever play native with the diplomacy mod turned on as normal native was tideous) i have not had this same feeling in bannerlord

which is why i feel this whole warband was better thing while it may hold some truth (i feel it dosent) needs to be compared with no mods on both

Now i know we dont know what the devs were doing for 8 or so years but it seems like they are try to make up for that with constant updates and the new modding tools look cool (again there could be a disscuion on wheather modding tools in EA is the right thing to do but thats not what this thread is about)

I feel though that saying this game is boring or repetative is just ignoring teh fact warband was worse and bannerlord has the poetnial to become better than it its currently nad the devs are showing they want to do that
 

jak1up

Veteran
WBWF&S
i feel peoples view on warband native has been tantied with mods that people played the most (i would only ever play native with the diplomacy mod turned on as normal native was tideous) i have not had this same feeling in bannerlord

which is why i feel this whole warband was better thing while it may hold some truth (i feel it dosent) needs to be compared with no mods on both

Now i know we dont know what the devs were doing for 8 or so years but it seems like they are try to make up for that with constant updates and the new modding tools look cool (again there could be a disscuion on wheather modding tools in EA is the right thing to do but thats not what this thread is about)

I feel though that saying this game is boring or repetative is just ignoring teh fact warband was worse and bannerlord has the poetnial to become better than it its currently nad the devs are showing they want to do that
Agree....
 

NLCRich

Squire
i feel peoples view on warband native has been tantied with mods that people played the most (i would only ever play native with the diplomacy mod turned on as normal native was tideous) i have not had this same feeling in bannerlord

which is why i feel this whole warband was better thing while it may hold some truth (i feel it dosent) needs to be compared with no mods on both

Now i know we dont know what the devs were doing for 8 or so years but it seems like they are try to make up for that with constant updates and the new modding tools look cool (again there could be a disscuion on wheather modding tools in EA is the right thing to do but thats not what this thread is about)

I feel though that saying this game is boring or repetative is just ignoring teh fact warband was worse and bannerlord has the poetnial to become better than it its currently nad the devs are showing they want to do that
Typos aside. I share the same view here as well. I also don't think the game is boring though.. my hundreds of hours already poured into it speak to that fact.

While I agree it still has much room for improvement, I think we are getting there and we can see the rate of updates picking up. This last 1.5.1 beta is probably the most stable one they've ever had and significant progress is being made with each update. Granted, 1.5.1 does give you free influence that leads to $$$ as mercenary, and there are health regen issues, and I am not saying there are no crashes at all (though I haven't had any), compared to how game breaking most of the other ones were before first hotfix, this one is much better. They might hit all of these in the first hotfix to go out as well, and it should only pick up further from here.

All of that aside, I do still think it is important for us to talk about those aspects of the game that need improvement, so a thread like this can at least be good for that.
 
I enjoy that Kenshi is being compared to Bannerlord, as superior, when Kenshi itself was (and still is) unfinished and incomplete. That had mods fill in many of the gaps. Which is what people are complaining about in Bannerlord.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some Kenshi, but it's similar to bannerlord (or vice versa) in that you have a semi-static sandbox world with a choose your own adventure type progression. Kenshi's towns are mostly static, it's combat is exceptionally repetitive, most starts are people probably farming Iron/Copper Nodes to get a base, or enough money to start a wandering Jonin group. After that its basically procedurally generated patrols.

Kenshi is rich in Lore, to be sure, but a lot of that is also up for interpretation, and other than a masterfully written concept for a background...

The game is empty. Barren, both as a wasteland but also as far as options for the player go. There is little to no diplomacy, the combat is watching CPU Dicerolls for Hit/Miss/Block, with some micro if you really get into it. Join the Slavers, Fight them, doesn't matter who you side with you eventually build your own faction.

A lot of the wonder of Kenshi is lost after a single play through, because it's the unforgiving atmosphere full of fear, and alien fauna that elicit an emotional response to the unknown. Something that is a bit more "memorable" due to the foreign environment, vs Bannerlords Mideval one.

Most of Kenshi is exceptionally barebones, but there is just enough, that with the RNG mob spawns / Patrols, and a little imagination the player can have hours upon hours of enjoyment through multiple playthroughs. Again I don't see Bannerlord as much different.

But the argument that "Bannerlord is unfinished garbage and we should be able to play it with out mods" and then to bring up Kenshi... Seems kind of hypocritical.

I am optimistic. I enjoy Bannerlord more than I did Warband, and slightly less than I did the VC Expansion. Mods are going to be a thing, period, so to demand that the game be some kind of AAA 10/10 Title at release seems... Moot? Yes, we deserve a finished game, and there is plenty of room for improvement, and things to be finished, but to pretend we won't all be strapping mods to it the second we can seems childish at best. "Finished" is subjective, not to be philosophical, or whatever, but it really does depend on the player. Is Skyrim a "Finished" game? To me it was trash outside of it's graphics and story. The world, albeit beautiful was empty, save for the same 15 recoloured mobs, 8 Voice acted NPCs. Combat was exceptionally basic, that even Bannerlords simple system is superior. Skyrim was the Exploration, and the story, gameplay wise, it was exceptionally lacking, hence all the stealth Archer memes. Again, much fun was had with the title (and Im sure someone somewhere hates me for ripping on Skyrim).

Even Kenshi needs mods. Go back and play it with out any, not even the Dark UI Mod, and see how quickly you go clambering to reinstall them all.

TL:grin:R We're all going to be strapping mods to this thing like Orcs strap scrap metal together and paint it red. We can argue till we're dead about how development is going but it's not constructive to just bash TW (or any company) but rather offer constructive input and hope for the best, and fix what we ultimately get with mods.
 
The game is empty. Barren, both as a wasteland but also as far as options for the player go. There is little to no diplomacy, the combat is watching CPU Dicerolls for Hit/Miss/Block, with some micro if you really get into it. Join the Slavers, Fight them, doesn't matter who you side with you eventually build your own faction.

I used to think like this, then I actually played the game with purpose and had a think about what the game mechanics were trying to get me to do, and now I can't get enough of it.

Of course if you just play kenshi the boring way and mine until you get a base then it's going to be boring, but the mechanics strongly discourage you from doing that by making it slow and uninteresting. Just grinding for mining skips the majority of what makes Kenshi special. I blame youtubers for this, most of them aren't very good at the game and never bother to learn, so they just mine for 4 hours.

What really separates Kenshi from bannerlord is that the mechanics are seamlessly integrated with each other. You can frictionlessly slide between thievery, stealth, base building, trading, running, ranged combat and melee combat, and in the midgame you'll be doing all of these at the same time as if they were a single action.
Here are some playthrough ideas I thought of, tried, and had a tonne of fun with:

1. Started a popular skimmer meat griller bar in Heft which was actually a front for capturing and selling slaves, starting fights with traders, and stealing from other shops.
2. Trained as a martial artist and went one a one-woman terrorist rampage across the Holy Nation, wiping out entire villages with my fists, and then hiding on the roofs if patrols came by. I eventually managed to kidnap the holy phoenix himself.
3. Got some of my best martial artists sent to Rebirth where they broke out at night, knocked out most of the guards and hid their armour and weapons. Then I sent an actual army there and wiped the floor with a bunch of confused naked guys who were already having trouble keeping the slaves under control.
4. Allied to the UC, then started beating up slavers in public. The UC samurai had to help me, and eventually a civil war broke out between slavers and the UC. I did the same in the slave mines and camps, effectively abolishing slavery in the Empire.

There is nothing close to this which you can do in bannerlord. Currently the full extent of it is the equivalent of mining until you get a base. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, I mean the focus of MnB is more on active combat and larger strategy, but the above reasons are why people compare Kenshi to bannerlord a lot, and why that game has much better design than MnB ever has.
 
It definitely isn't for everyone, but I think a lot of the criticism comes from people who were expecting a way more straightforwardly modern open world game, with static mechanics, a completely filled out map, and static quests and all that crap. Someone coming from the Witcher 3 or Skyrim or especially Mount and Blade is going to have a kind of whiplash playing it. I certainly did.

I think the more or less barren map is a genius decision because while it immediately alienates a lot of people, it forces you to figure out how to make your own fun from the mechanics rather than wandering around looking for "content" like in other games.
 
I used to think like this, then I actually played the game with purpose and had a think about what the game mechanics were trying to get me to do, and now I can't get enough of it.

Of course if you just play kenshi the boring way and mine until you get a base then it's going to be boring, but the mechanics strongly discourage you from doing that by making it slow and uninteresting. Just grinding for mining skips the majority of what makes Kenshi special. I blame youtubers for this, most of them aren't very good at the game and never bother to learn, so they just mine for 4 hours.

What really separates Kenshi from bannerlord is that the mechanics are seamlessly integrated with each other. You can frictionlessly slide between thievery, stealth, base building, trading, running, ranged combat and melee combat, and in the midgame you'll be doing all of these at the same time as if they were a single action.
Here are some playthrough ideas I thought of, tried, and had a tonne of fun with:

1. Started a popular skimmer meat griller bar in Heft which was actually a front for capturing and selling slaves, starting fights with traders, and stealing from other shops.
2. Trained as a martial artist and went one a one-woman terrorist rampage across the Holy Nation, wiping out entire villages with my fists, and then hiding on the roofs if patrols came by. I eventually managed to kidnap the holy phoenix himself.
3. Got some of my best martial artists sent to Rebirth where they broke out at night, knocked out most of the guards and hid their armour and weapons. Then I sent an actual army there and wiped the floor with a bunch of confused naked guys who were already having trouble keeping the slaves under control.
4. Allied to the UC, then started beating up slavers in public. The UC samurai had to help me, and eventually a civil war broke out between slavers and the UC. I did the same in the slave mines and camps, effectively abolishing slavery in the Empire.

There is nothing close to this which you can do in bannerlord. Currently the full extent of it is the equivalent of mining until you get a base. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, I mean the focus of MnB is more on active combat and larger strategy, but the above reasons are why people compare Kenshi to bannerlord a lot, and why that game has much better design than MnB ever has.

So, you

1: Started a Small base /Shop and fought a Faction.

2: Made 100 Stat Woman and fought a faction.

3: Made an Army, fought a faction.

4: Allied a Faction and fought a faction.

You used combat mechanics, Trading mechanics, and stealth mechanics. The rest was entirely role play on your part. Again I am not bashing Kenshi, by any means, but the majority of what you described can be boiled down to those very few mechanics.

Combat whether ranged or melee doesn't matter it's all RNG. Some micro involved if you really get into it.

Stealth and stealing is again, toggling a button, and RNG. With some active moving around (Until you get to 50+ and then you are just invisible in broad daylight basically) and stealing is literally just clicking and RNG.

All Kenshi does better, is it's got a few more toys to play with, a couple more mechanics tacked on, but it's also had tons of community support, including just outright integrating community mods into its core game, among a longer development time where players have had their hands on it.

I love Kenshi, it is an exceptionally fun sandbox - for those with imagination. If one is being hyper critical however, the mechanics are not "Deep" unless you count the combat calculations. Which is more math/code side than gameplay side.

The options are pretty much, Build, Fight, Wander, Trade. You are limited with out mods, in what is tradable for profit, and the Smuggling mechanic in game actually doesn't function properly with out mods. There's a reason there are entire overhaul mods for trading and fixing the economy. The combat, the Diplomacy and World state. To allow players to engage in slavery, rather than just be a victim of it. Running your own shop (with out mods) is almost pointless, as the NPCS can only buy a handful of items, and rarely enough coin to get by on the shop alone.

The whole "Bannerlord will suck cause the modders have to fix it! Kenshi is better!" doesn't really fly -- because modders fixed a lot of Kenshi too, and then the Devs asked if they could integrate the work. The Kenshi devs recently announced Kenshi 2 was in progress, and even admitted that Kenshi itself was unfinished, but they had done (and learned) all they had wanted to do, and were setting out on Kenshi 2, and that modders have already fixed a lot of the things they themselves had meant to.

For reference, I've done a Swamp ninja cult, A Shek Wastelander playthrough, a Rebel Farmer faction in the UC deserts, a Holy Nation Crusade, a UC Samurai, a wandering Mercenary group, and dozens of other play throughs. I have probably 150+ unique characters I've created through stories / events I happened upon in game. So I've played the hell out of the game.

Again, love Kenshi, but its really not as "Deep" as people claim mechanically. It's a Sandbox with some fun props and toys, that players can make stories with in a mostly Static world unless the player kills certain NPCs and changes world states. An just an interesting enough story, with enough left out to make the player want to explore.


It definitely isn't for everyone, but I think a lot of the criticism comes from people who were expecting a way more straightforwardly modern open world game, with static mechanics, a completely filled out map, and static quests and all that crap. Someone coming from the Witcher 3 or Skyrim or especially Mount and Blade is going to have a kind of whiplash playing it. I certainly did.

I think the more or less barren map is a genius decision because while it immediately alienates a lot of people, it forces you to figure out how to make your own fun from the mechanics rather than wandering around looking for "content" like in other games.

This is ironically exactly what people were saying about Bannerlord at the EA release, is that it was empty, and the :"Fan boys" were saying "You need to make your own story! Its a Sand box! Its Great!"

A Sandbox is ultimately a Setting, for a player to create a Choose your own adventure. Kenshi provided a Good world, and some decent toys.
In comparison, Bannerlord has provided a Good world, some Okay toys, and just enough of a story to make you interested. (Hence many people tossing 1000 hours into the EA alone).

I am optimistic that Bannerlord will end up in a better state, by release. How much better? Cant say. It will be fixed, overhauled and rehashed by modders though, just as Kenshi has been.

And yes -- If you haven't picked up Kenshi, I would definitely say it's worth a look. For those curious.
 
Last edited:

Vermillion_Hawk

Butthurt Bushmaster
Grandmaster Knight
WF&SWBVC
That's a ridiculously reductive way to look at Jacob's story. Presentation matters almost as much, if not more so, as actual content. Obviously player roleplaying helps, but it also depends on how well the game facilitates that roleplaying. I could quickly whip up a Java program that would be a collection of buttons on a grey screen that would accomplish exactly the same things you listed, "clicking and RNG", but it wouldn't have the same effect.

You're also giving modders and mods far too much credit - I would much rather play a well-designed game with a realized central vision as opposed to a poorly-done game which has good tools for external mods. Guess which one I think Bannerlord is.
 
It definitely isn't for everyone, but I think a lot of the criticism comes from people who were expecting a way more straightforwardly modern open world game, with static mechanics, a completely filled out map, and static quests and all that crap. Someone coming from the Witcher 3 or Skyrim or especially Mount and Blade is going to have a kind of whiplash playing it. I certainly did.

I think the more or less barren map is a genius decision because while it immediately alienates a lot of people, it forces you to figure out how to make your own fun from the mechanics rather than wandering around looking for "content" like in other games.
That's a ridiculously reductive way to look at Jacob's story. Presentation matters almost as much, if not more so, as actual content. Obviously player roleplaying helps, but it also depends on how well the game facilitates that roleplaying. I could quickly whip up a Java program that would be a collection of buttons on a grey screen that would accomplish exactly the same things you listed, "clicking and RNG", but it wouldn't have the same effect.

You're also giving modders and mods far too much credit - I would much rather play a well-designed game with a realized central vision as opposed to a poorly-done game which has good tools for external mods. Guess which one I think Bannerlord is.

Have you actually played Kenshi? Take away role play and the game is exceptionally simple. Elegant, but simple. Again not bashing it, but the mechanics it has over bannerlord aren't that many.

It has a stealth mechanic.

It has a theft mechanic superior to bannerlords. (Can rob quest givers in BL)

Its trade/Economy is less fleshed out than bannerlords.

Its combat functions similar. Though some what uncomparable due to innate differences in how combat functions between the two.

Diplomacy is basically non-existant outside of some reputation grinding. Which you can do in bannerlord.

Slavery is neat but not a player function with out mods, So not really much different than bannerlords current prisoner system. Just with some added depth for roleplay. So we'll call that a plus for Kenshi (but you can literally negate the slavery by Stealth + Stop obeying) and wait till the slavers just... walk away. Congrats you escaped slavery by cheesing an incomplete game function. (Which is what people are complaining about in bannerlord). If you choose to not cheese it. You are left with either eternally being a slave, or building a story around escaping. Which involves Fighting or Sneaking. When you boil it down, its just a neat prop element to create a story. Which could just as easily be applied to bannerlord.

Khuzait lord takes you prisoner, you escape, build an army and vow vengence to destroy Khuzaits. All Kenshi did "better" was allow you to interact in the slave bit, which yes, is more depth, but not a whole lot. Its just the same game features... as a slave.

Kenshi's world is slightly more explorable, in that you can literally explore the entire thing, and bannerlord is limited to scenes, but you can just as easily explore Bannerlords scenes, since 99% of Kenshis exploration has nothing in it. Other than hey lets do it for the adventure/fun/hell of it.

If you look for -actual content- as you describe it. Kenshi is very, very limited mechanic wise. And I would agree that yes, bannerlord is too.

The Crafting System is basically identical - Farm resources - Use resources to build better items. Skill = Weapon quality / Success rate.

I'm not arguing that Kenshi worse or bad, but thats not to say Bannerlord cant be better when its done EA. It's already improved immensely.

Dialogue -- Outside of some interesting dialogue for world states, its always the same. It never changes, and in Kenshi many lines only appear once and then with out mods never to be heard again. The rest is "The Cannonball plains! Home of an ancient sport" every time you step foot into the land, or the "Blegh I hate the holy nation" (Even if you are holy Nation) on repeat. So dialogue, outside of some interesting quest related stuff is also very bland and repetitive.

In my original post, I also applied this logic to Skyrim, to try to show I wasnt just bashing on Kenshi, as I do believe its a good game. Both are, arguably. But if you are going to talk about "Unfinished, broken Mechanics", Skyrim, Kenshi and Bannerlord are all full of them.

Thats basically all video games. Reptitive with out personal input.
 
That's a ridiculously reductive way to look at Jacob's story. Presentation matters almost as much, if not more so, as actual content. Obviously player roleplaying helps, but it also depends on how well the game facilitates that roleplaying. I could quickly whip up a Java program that would be a collection of buttons on a grey screen that would accomplish exactly the same things you listed, "clicking and RNG", but it wouldn't have the same effect.

You're also giving modders and mods far too much credit - I would much rather play a well-designed game with a realized central vision as opposed to a poorly-done game which has good tools for external mods. Guess which one I think Bannerlord is.

To add to that, my point is that Kenshi has mechanics that fit exceptionally well together, not that they work in isolation. Any game will be bad if you reduce it to its constituent parts. But the thing with bannerlord is that separating the mechanics out in this reductive fashion doesn't really affect the game as much, which is bad for the playing experience and absolutely devastating for roleplaying.

If we just look at something as asinine as smithing in both games, in Kenshi it's something you can use to:
1. Set up a shop
2. Distribute to your troops
3. Create for personal use
4. Create disguises for certain factions
5. Create items that can't be obtained in any other way
6. You have to scour the world to find different blueprints.

In Bannerlord your weapons are no better than the ones you buy in a shop, the sole reason to make them is to farm cash. While the mechanic on its own is a lot more fleshed out than in Kenshi (where you just select from a list of preset weapons), it is so divorced from the rest of the game that nobody uses it.

Also I don't play with (many) mods in Kenshi and I think most of the overhauls are just bloated, they tend not to add many mechanics either. But playing Bannerlord or even Warband without mods is a painful experience.

ninja post
 
To add to that, my point is that Kenshi has mechanics that fit exceptionally well together, not that they work in isolation. Any game will be bad if you reduce it to its constituent parts. But the thing with bannerlord is that separating the mechanics out in this reductive fashion doesn't really affect the game as much, which is bad for the playing experience and absolutely devastating for roleplaying.

If we just look at something as asinine as smithing in both games, in Kenshi it's something you can use to:
1. Set up a shop
2. Distribute to your troops
3. Create for personal use
4. Create disguises for certain factions
5. Create items that can't be obtained in any other way
6. You have to scour the world to find different blueprints.

In Bannerlord your weapons are no better than the ones you buy in a shop, the sole reason to make them is to farm cash. While the mechanic on its own is a lot more fleshed out than in Kenshi (where you just select from a list of preset weapons), it is so divorced from the rest of the game that nobody uses it.

Also I don't play with (many) mods in Kenshi and I think most of the overhauls are just bloated, they tend not to add many mechanics either. But playing Bannerlord or even Warband without mods is a painful experience.

ninja post

I have made many weapons for personal use, in fact thats the only reason I smith in Bannerlord. To make Weapons I like the look of.
If you just chase stats then everyone in Kenshi would just use the same Nodachi or whichever item is best in slot.

Arguably you can also craft items you will never find in game, due to customization.

So all you've added to the list is set up shop -- which if we speak functionally with out mods --- is fairly simple. You sell medkits, food and alcohol. Which is just waiting for NPCS -- not exactly an in depth mechanic.

Equip your troops -- Yeah they definitely feel more personal I'll give you that. You can some what do this with companions but yes Kenshi is superior in this manner.

Disguises are neat -- you can also disguise yourself into BL towns, but its a very minor mechanic, in both games.

Forced exploration for blueprints, or just praying to get them in the Great library. So incentive to explore is a plus, won't argue that.

To argue the game is not "simple" is silly in my opinion, and it's fine if we disagree on that. Elegant is simple, and Kenshi does many things better - but not through depth of mechanic, but story telling, and in some forms player freedom.

Again bannerlord needs a lot of work, but the game isn't that different mechanically. Its just the paint job you prefer. Most if not all sandboxes kind of function this way, again I point to Skyrim.
 
Top Bottom