How much time do you think its going to take TW to acknowledge this game is boring and repetitive?

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musashii89

Banned
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Immersion or boredom is a rather subjective matter. To say "economy is broken because income from a fief should be more important in a feudal world than crafting a javelin" or "factions in war with several other factions declaring war on still another faction or not looking for peace with one faction is a bad mechanic" are already assessments, but with some objective and only few subjective facts in it. To say "the game is boring", "the game is not immersive" are assessments of a higher level with a lot of personal taste in it.

It's a bit difficult to react to it. For me for example it is of no importance at all wether you can chat with lords, make feasts or read books. I want to be immersed by graphics and by meaningful mechanics of the AI in the first place. I also trust in mods and don't need all in the main game to be satisfied. My three favorite games, Skyrim, Fallout 4, TW:R2 I could not play a minute without a big bunch of mods. In Bannerlord I'm annoyed about a lot of design choices, but as long as they can be dealt with with mods, so what?

So I hope they get the core mechanics right in the end, making war a bit less of a repetitive senseless grind for example. Repetitive it will remain to a certain degree, cause more or less any video game is repetitive (for example Kenshi which was mentioned in the thread).
God do I bother? Your grasp of objective and subjective arguments is superficial at best.
Your argument can be summed up as "All your points are based on opinion and therefore mean nothing, here is my opinion on the game, but so long as someone else fixes it for me with mods etc. Kthxbye"
I also trust in mods and don't need all in the main game to be satisfied. My three favorite games, Skyrim, Fallout 4, TW:R2 I could not play a minute without a big bunch of mods.
This is everything which is wrong with the fanbois who currently prowl this forum defending this games horrid state.
 
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So I hope they get the core mechanics right in the end, making war a bit less of a repetitive senseless grind for example. Repetitive it will remain to a certain degree, cause more or less any video game is repetitive (for example Kenshi which was mentioned in the thread).
Yeah I feel like some unhelpful language often gets used to criticise bannerlord. Repetition exists in all games, and there are far more repetitive games that I enjoy way more than bannerlord. Rome Total War has a repetition "loop" of about 5-10 minutes, about the same as bannerlord, and in early game kenshi you might repeat the same 2 minute task over and over for hours. Minecraft is even worse, the repetition loop in that is under a second.

The difference is that in those games you do repetitive stuff which is on its own quite satisfying, and with the exception of Minecraft, you need a ton of skill with the game to be able to repeat the tasks efficiently, and even then something can go terribly wrong. There's a lot of tension involved in Kenshi when you're baiting beak things or knocking out guards, and in Rome Total War even when you're steamrolling the map you have to be fully engaged otherwise you could lose half your army.

In bannerlord looters are not fun or challenging to fight, and big battles never go so badly that you lose to a smaller army. The repetition in that feels bad because it's basically afk.
 

musashii89

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Yeah I feel like some unhelpful language often gets used to criticise bannerlord. Repetition exists in all games, and there are far more repetitive games that I enjoy way more than bannerlord. Rome Total War has a repetition "loop" of about 5-10 minutes, about the same as bannerlord, and in early game kenshi you might repeat the same 2 minute task over and over for hours. Minecraft is even worse, the repetition loop in that is under a second.

The difference is that in those games you do repetitive stuff which is on its own quite satisfying, and with the exception of Minecraft, you need a ton of skill with the game to be able to repeat the tasks efficiently, and even then something can go terribly wrong. There's a lot of tension involved in Kenshi when you're baiting beak things or knocking out guards, and in Rome Total War even when you're steamrolling the map you have to be fully engaged otherwise you could lose half your army.

In bannerlord looters are not fun or challenging to fight, and big battles never go so badly that you lose to a smaller army. The repetition in that feels bad because it's basically afk.
You can describe playing a violin as scrapping cats entrails over horse hair too. Dissecting what the word means to different people helps no one. The game is repetitive, that alone is not a problem, we all know its far from the only problem, however we cannot all agree on which facet of which aspect of the game is the worst or best as its all opinion.

Further, take the minecraft example, you miss the forest for the trees. You are looking at one aspect of the game (mining/crafting) and veiwing it as being super repetitive. However, if you consider a wider view, each game played is unique, no two games of minecraft are played the same and therefore it could be considered to be the least repetitive game. Randomly generated maps, methods of mining and have given that game replay-ability TW can only dream of.

There are plenty of ways to lose a big battle to a smaller force and it seems your experience in the game is severely limited. The single factor your indicating in your anecdote is difficulty. Granted they have not coded difficulty well in this game but perhaps challenge yourself a little further first before making assumptions.

Personally, and I feel I speak for a few here, it is boring and repetitive combined because there are severely limited play styles currently catered by game mechanics. Like getting the choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, it may be a choice, but its not meaningful when the outcome is approximately the same.
 

musashii89

Banned
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Yes, that was the point of my post. I was focussing on the idea that repetition itself is a bad thing, which is what some people seem to suggest.
Thats what your not getting, to some people repetition IS the problem, to some people its depth, mechanics, etc etc. None of them alone are game breaking, but we have to form a common front of generalized changes we want made or would you have us fight each other forever? Stop arguing over the dirty dishes while the house is burning down.
 

bestmods168

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8 years ago. Now its just about stringing people along and fishing for money. Now with the cheats gone in thia patch, the game is unplayable. Yes. You need cheats to make it balance because the devs couldnt balance the game. Brand new game and multiple bands of looters already flocking the fields. Reporting it wont help fix it either. Plenty of reports have been told that problems were fixed but obviously a lie.
 

bestmods168

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Nosediving was in regards to player numbers, nice try tho. Who do you think still plays this POS? Love the blind defence of a game you admit your already bored of. Is the lack of content why your here everyday defending TW and not playing it?

Love how a game being in EA is being used as an excuse for a company doing next to nothing.

Demos and early access used to be an example of their craftsmanship, now its a marketing tool to take money for an indefinite dev period.
+1000
 

musashii89

Banned
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8 years ago. Now its just about stringing people along and fishing for money. Now with the cheats gone in thia patch, the game is unplayable. Yes. You need cheats to make it balance because the devs couldnt balance the game. Brand new game and multiple bands of looters already flocking the fields. Reporting it wont help fix it either. Plenty of reports have been told that problems were fixed but obviously a lie.
Preach it man. Unfortunately you will find a lot of people aggresively defending the state of the game and no meaningful contact from Taleworlds here
 

guiskj

Sergeant
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Lastly one dev (find your own references) stating this game will be developed as a 'combat game' only, which to me reads like they have given up trying to add depth or build on any lessons learnt from previous titles.
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Old post but I severily dislike when people are misrepresnting others, whether I agree with the original message or not.

@mexxico is the dev that you are referencing, and his exact message was that, from HIS point of view, Bannerlord was an Action RPG. His point was to counter balance people asking in a thread for much deeper tactical combat.
Again, this was his personal opinion.
 

mexxico

Developer
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Old post but I severily dislike when people are misrepresnting others, whether I agree with the original message or not.

@mexxico is the dev that you are referencing, and his exact message was that, from HIS point of view, Bannerlord was an Action RPG. His point was to counter balance people asking in a thread for much deeper tactical combat.
Again, this was his personal opinion.
No I am not that dev. I did not said anything about game’s genre. We only talk about how to develop diplomacy, trade, campaign ai and balance issues. I do not want to join other discussions.
 

guiskj

Sergeant
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Thanks for the correction, @mexxico . It must have been @Duh_TaleWorlds then. I am having a hell of time finding the thread referenced though.

In the case that I cannot substantiate what I said, and Duh says it was not him either, I hope @musashii89 will take my apology. Even though I don't agree with what he said, I don't believe in unsubstantiated attacks and I don't want to be a hypocrite.
 

Ragemaster9999

Sergeant
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No I am not that dev. I did not said anything about game’s genre. We only talk about how to develop diplomacy, trade, campaign ai and balance issues. I do not want to join other discussions.
People hailing warband as the pinnacle of game design really need to take off the rose colored glasses. Native warband compared to current bannerlord, bannerlord is already a superior product imo. There are a few mechanics missing that didn't port over, but the again there are systems in bannerlord which are way better and fleshed out then warband like settlement sieges, companion, skill tree Ect.

Also whoever here thinks warband wasn't a huge grind need to come back to reality. The whole core game loop of the entire series is war parties fighting eachother. Everything ties into that.
 

Davic

Master Knight
WBNW
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Thanks for the correction, @mexxico . It must have been @Duh_TaleWorlds then. I am having a hell of time finding the thread referenced though.

In the case that I cannot substantiate what I said, and Duh says it was not him either, I hope @musashii89 will take my apology. Even though I don't agree with what he said, I don't believe in unsubstantiated attacks and I don't want to be a hypocrite.
It was actually Callum who said it.
 

Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
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Thanks for the correction, @mexxico . It must have been @Duh_TaleWorlds then. I am having a hell of time finding the thread referenced though.

In the case that I cannot substantiate what I said, and Duh says it was not him either, I hope @musashii89 will take my apology. Even though I don't agree with what he said, I don't believe in unsubstantiated attacks and I don't want to be a hypocrite.
Lol naught for two, man (it was Callum). You are right though that he later clarified that it was just his own view of the M&B franchise.

I honestly don't think his original assessment was all that far off the mark or really that controversial when placed in the proper context. He was commenting in response to a video showcasing a mod where there were multiple troop formations inching across the map with several different phases of the battle, rather than making a general statement on strategy as a whole within the game. I haven't actually tried the mod, but if vanilla combat were structured in a similar manner it would probably require too much attention to allow you to charge into the thick of the fighting.

M&B games have always been about leading your troops from the front rather than commanding them from the back, and that's difficult to do if you must constantly issue orders like you would in a Total War game. Imagine trying to command a battle in a Total War game while fighting in first person view. I think the greatest innovation Bannerlord has made with respect to battles is the ability to delegate the command of certain troops so you can focus only on the parts that you want (such as personal combat). It's true that the AI isn't exactly the smartest, but that's a work in progress.

I think Callum's mistake was using the words "too complex," because it was clear by that point that people were already bearing their pitchforks.
 
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musashii89

Banned
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No I am not that dev. I did not said anything about game’s genre. We only talk about how to develop diplomacy, trade, campaign ai and balance issues. I do not want to join other discussions.
@mexxico This is why the game lacks depth though. All interactions are two dimensional and most choices have he same outcome. Disappointing, but I should have guessed from the patches so far that a lack of collaboration was at least the partial cause of this games slide into obsolescence.

RIP bannerlord, you had promise.
 

musashii89

Banned
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Lol naught for two, man (it was Callum). You are right though that he later clarified that it was just his own view of the M&B franchise.

I honestly don't think his original assessment was all that far off the mark or really that controversial when placed in the proper context. He was commenting in response to a video showcasing a mod where there were multiple troop formations inching across the map with several different phases of the battle, rather than making a general statement on strategy as a whole within the game. I haven't actually tried the mod, but if vanilla combat were structured in a similar manner it would probably require too much attention to allow you to charge into the thick of the fighting.

M&B games have always been about leading your troops from the front rather than commanding them from the back, and that's difficult to do if you must constantly issue orders like you would in a Total War game. Imagine trying to command a battle in a Total War game while fighting in first person view. I think the greatest innovation Bannerlord has made with respect to battles is the ability to delegate the command of certain troops so you can focus only on the parts that you want (such as personal combat). It's true that the AI isn't exactly the smartest, but that's a work in progress.

I think Callum's mistake was using the words "too complex," because it was clear by that point that people were already bearing their pitchforks.
The problem is we get no meaningful contact from any one, except a few devs and then all of these devs say **** like were not aiming to make this game complex, and
We only talk about how to develop diplomacy, trade, campaign ai and balance issues. I do not want to join other discussions.
indicating that this game is being developed by half a dozen dudes with negligible collaboration with fans or each other.
And the worst part is the game is advertised as
"Why Early Access?
Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005....These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect."

Seems self evident that to me that this has not happened due to some combination of a lack of honesty, competence and/or passion. And yes i am being harsh but after 5 months of obstinately refusing the interaction that they advertised, I feel its warranted.
 
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Stromming

Veteran
WBWF&SNWVC
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Complain about TW/Community communication all you want in other areas, but mexxico is the only dev I have seen posting on the forum as late as 11-12pm and as early as 6am, showing his extreme commitment to the game even past working hours.

He has posted is own thread to gather all information in one place so it is easier for him to follow up and digest. He also engages people in PM at times.

You CANNOT use mexxico as an example of why communication is bad
 

Warlord123123

Recruit
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Came to see if game is finally worth playing since the cluster**** release and hectic patching afterwards.

Saw this post, read it, ok, leaving for half a year again.