How many two handed weapons are there?

[hoboistice]

of course there was 2 handed axes... anything else would be illogical

I just thought of a possible solution to the problems of the axe in the game.  The designers could create an axe that allows either 1 or 2 handed use, like the bastard sword in Warband.  That way the 2-handed folks will get what they want and the 1-hand folks will get what they want.  Of course the axe handle couldn't be too long because it would be too difficult to wield 1-handed.  So the Dane axe wouldn't be realistic for this. 

As a modder, do you know if it is possible to make the axe 1 or 2 handed?

You can do it with morghs in about half a minute, it's easy.

Also it's more absurd to see a load of people whacking at bits of wood with hatchets than having two handed axes in the game.

 

[Dennis The Great]

of course there was 2 handed axes... anything else would be illogical

I just thought of a possible solution to the problems of the axe in the game.  The designers could create an axe that allows either 1 or 2 handed use, like the bastard sword in Warband.  That way the 2-handed folks will get what they want and the 1-hand folks will get what they want.  Of course the axe handle couldn't be too long because it would be too difficult to wield 1-handed.  So the Dane axe wouldn't be realistic for this. 

As a modder, do you know if it is possible to make the axe 1 or 2 handed?

yeah it's really no problem. you have made a good point -> pretty much any weapon should be 1 and 2 handed usable

I agree with that.. my reenactment axe, have a longer stick, so i can easly use 2 hands.. this could be a good salution for the "problem"
my little axe:

Spoiler

 

[Do not look here]

Are you people coming here just for sake of discussion?

That being said, I think that discussion right now is futile. From what I've seen so far in devs' post, once the bugs are squashed the items will be revised/added/discussed/whatever - two handed axes among them.

Yes. First bugfix and later the team will talk about this kind of improvements. I am just explaining our criteria in the selecting of weapons. Frankly, I'm surprised by this reaction about the absence of two handed axes. It’s something that we had not expected, but as it has been said it’s quite simple to get a ‘historical’ solution for this demand. We have a list of suggestions that we’ll consider also.

 

[Dennis The Great]

Are you people coming here just for sake of discussion?

That being said, I think that discussion right now is futile. From what I've seen so far in devs' post, once the bugs are squashed the items will be revised/added/discussed/whatever - two handed axes among them.

Yes. First bugfix and later the team will talk about this kind of improvements. I am just explaining our criteria in the selecting of weapons. Frankly, I'm surprised by this reaction about the absence of two handed axes. It’s something that we had not expected, but as it has been said it’s quite simple to get a ‘historical’ solution for this demand. We have a list of suggestions that we’ll consider also.

No im not.. i cant speak for the others though..

but the last replys are nu discussion, we are just suggestion some ideas have a look and write what you think

 

[rapier17]

BUT BUT BUT...

2 handed axes was used.. not the great Dane axe, but shorter 2 handed axes.. There is a statue of the King Alfred who fights the Dane in England in years around 878.. On the statue he holds a 2 handed axe.. why make a statue with the 2h axe if they didnt use them.. maybe the maker of the statue is just thinking it was like that, but i hardly thing so
A little link: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_av_England

A lot of the fantasies & misconceptions of the 'Dark Age' period that are still depicted today are the fault of the Victorians who, when they didn't know the answer, guessed and then splashed those guesses all over the place. Goodness knows how (in)accurate that statue is.

There's another statue to Alfred in the Stourton Tower from the Georgian period - that doesn't look quite right as he's depicted wearing a plate cuirass and has a sword with a disc hilt at his hip.

 

[Dennis The Great]

BUT BUT BUT...

2 handed axes was used.. not the great Dane axe, but shorter 2 handed axes.. There is a statue of the King Alfred who fights the Dane in England in years around 878.. On the statue he holds a 2 handed axe.. why make a statue with the 2h axe if they didnt use them.. maybe the maker of the statue is just thinking it was like that, but i hardly thing so
A little link: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_av_England

A lot of the fantasies & misconceptions of the 'Dark Age' period that are still depicted today are the fault of the Victorians who, when they didn't know the answer, guessed and then splashed those guesses all over the place. Goodness knows how (in)accurate that statue is.

There's another statue to Alfred in the Stourton Tower from the Georgian period - that doesn't look quite right as he's depicted wearing a plate cuirass and has a sword with a disc hilt at his hip.

Your absolutly right.. that exampel was just to point out that 2h axes did existed nothing else.. but i think we all have cleared that out now..... so let us all stop discuss this subject anymore.. this is just getting more and more stupid.. people's reaction on some peoples requests with 2h axes, have choked me.

Just fix the game, and let axes be axes......

 

[wildyracing]

Of course two-handed axes existed in 9th century - this is out of question. I can again quote my previous posts about woodcutting axes, which were always used with both hands.

This discussion proved to be fruitful and decisive, and at least served as a way to tell the devs how we think as a gamers and as a historians. Rest assured, they will consider adding the 2 handed axes in the future, for which they have my (our) thanks!

Lets give them time to fix all bugs and glitches in Viking Conquest, then I'm sure it would come down to improving the game with the addition of 2 handed axes and increasing bow's damage.

 

[Dennis The Great]

Of course two-handed axes existed in 9th century - this is out of question. I can again quote my previous posts about woodcutting axes, which were always used with both hands.

This discussion proved to be fruitful and decisive, and at least served as a way to tell the devs how we think as a gamers and as a historians. Rest assured, they will consider adding the 2 handed axes in the future, for which they have my (our) thanks!

Lets give them time to fix all bugs and glitches in Viking Conquest, then I'm sure it would come down to improving the game with the addition of 2 handed axes and increasing bow's damage.

Agree..

 

[hrotha]

2 handed axes was used.. not the great Dane axe, but shorter 2 handed axes.. There is a statue of the King Alfred who fights the Dane in England in years around 878.. On the statue he holds a 2 handed axe.. why make a statue with the 2h axe if they didnt use them.. maybe the maker of the statue is just thinking it was like that, but i hardly thing so
A little link: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_av_England

That's akin to saying that, if specialized two-handed axes didn't exist in the 9th century, they would retroactively spring into existence if Viking Conquest included them.

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

I don't think the axe in the statue was supposed to represent a 2h axe. It just has a whopping great head to show how great Alfred was.

It encourages more of a 'brawling' battle-style with troops beside you rather than expecting to rambo a whole army alone, this is matched by the new leveling system.

Personally, I don't think the scrum we get in-game, with most of the AI attacks going to waste is at all realistic, but at best comical.

A shieldwall was probably a very loose and fluid formation, as we hear medieval advice to avoid overlapping shields at all costs when fighting in formation. It's because shields were used actively and were pretty useless in melee if they didn't have room to move.

The team has done well within the limitations of M&B's shield system, but the  AI needs to better understand that it should keep the enemy at weapon's length and avoid standing too close to its neighbors, because while this kind of scrum might almost make sense in full plate armour, without shields that block everything, it would be over within a couple of seconds for soldiers without full body protection, so it makes no sense in this setting.

They also cant abuse the 's' key the same way human players can to gain that extra reach.

Hmm.

 

[Heskeytime]

Theories about history derive from empirical evidence. Just because you disbelieve the points people have made doesn't make it so.

I believed that more before studying archaeology and history, specifically studying the Dark Ages, people get very set in their ways and defensive about things they believe because it's what they've always believed, regardless of what evidence exists.

Theories about the history of this era derive from very shaky and incoherent archaeological evidence, if they're even derived from anything. What 'historical' sources exist, at least from the British isles, are written by monks and are of dubious reliability. It's a popular period *because* there is so much room for debate, unlike other periods where extensive finds and written documents can utterly disprove certain theories and only support very few.

They also cant abuse the 's' key the same way human players can to gain that extra reach.

Hmm.

Lol, it's Skey Time

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

You have to remember before you're too hard on the accounts of the monks that these monks were very important people and sometimes had close relatives commanding armies.

We're not talking about backward hermits writing whatever pops into their head, but people very near the top of the social ladder and not remotely isolated from military affairs.

 

[Heskeytime]

But they rarely go into specific detail about the material culture of the day, no fault of theirs but it's rarely something you get descriptive writing about.

Even Hagliographies that feature awesome battle-scenes (alas i forget the specific name i'm thinking of, it's a hagliography of an Anglo-Saxon saint written by monks but it reads like a viking saga!), even they dont go into detail about the armaments.



*edit* though not the one i was thinking about, Saint Guthlac is a good example of this. Great article here:

http://www.alarichall.org.uk/guthlacpreprint.pdf

It compares the 'Life of Saint Guthlac' (Vita Guthlaci) in the 8th Century to the Old English poem 'Guthlac' from that period and also to 'Beowulf' as this appears to be a major inspiration for Guthlac poem, he's modeled as both a likeness and counter to the Beowulf model. You can skim-read the article to find extracts of the poem itself, but basically even the warrior poem which tries to portray him as a holy warrior doesnt give very much detail about equipment, clothing or weaponry other than the vague mention of 'swords' - let alone the official monastic version of his life.

I suppose from their point of view why would they? They know what a warrior looks like and would assume their audience does too. This is without going into how the poem and monastic accounts greatly differ regarding the man's motivations and backstory, it's not really relevant but it does suggest that at least one of the accounts is unreliable and puts both on shaky ground. This is the kinda crap you gotta deal with from this period xD if you're lucky enough to find any texts at all. In the rare instances where you find more than one account they usually either contradict each other, or directly quote each other showing that one of your sources is just using the other source as a reference.

 

[Redleg]

of course there was 2 handed axes... anything else would be illogical

I just thought of a possible solution to the problems of the axe in the game.  The designers could create an axe that allows either 1 or 2 handed use, like the bastard sword in Warband.  That way the 2-handed folks will get what they want and the 1-hand folks will get what they want.  Of course the axe handle couldn't be too long because it would be too difficult to wield 1-handed.  So the Dane axe wouldn't be realistic for this. 

As a modder, do you know if it is possible to make the axe 1 or 2 handed?

yeah it's really no problem. you have made a good point -> pretty much any weapon should be 1 and 2 handed usable

I have always wondered whether Warband gives more damage when the bastard sword is used 2-handed than 1-handed.  It seems to me it should but I can't tell from looking at the item information.

 

[Heskeytime]

I have always wondered whether Warband gives more damage when the bastard sword is used 2-handed than 1-handed.  It seems to me it should but I can't tell from looking at the item information.

I think it's more that when you use it in 1hand mode with a shield it receives a damage penalty rather than a bonus in 2 hands, cant remember the exact figure, 10-15% i think

 

[jepekula]

It actually just gets a speed penalty instead of a damage penalty when used with a one hand which then makes the sword do less damage when used onehanded, but it has no direct damage penalty.
Also, the statue of Alfred the Great which has a two-handed axe in it was erected in 1877. It is not really a contemporary source.

 

[Redleg]

It actually just gets a speed penalty instead of a damage penalty when used with a one hand which then makes the sword do less damage when used onehanded, but it has no direct damage penalty.
Also, the statue of Alfred the Great which has a two-handed axe in it was erected in 1877. It is not really a contemporary source.

Thanks for the info.  I had noticed that the weapon speed seemed to be slower in 1-handed.

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

I suppose from their point of view why would they?

Yep, I noticed yesterday that my guitar case (which I've had for years) has hinges a lot like some of the clasps found at Sutton Hoo. Somehow, they're not that exciting anyway.

You probably know in reasonable detail what makes up a computer, but if you were writing the biography of a full time computer hacker, it probably wouldn't come up.

Even in stories specifically about swords or other weapons or artifacts, the characteristics that are described are special magical properties, rather than general physical characteristics.

 

[Heskeytime]

I suppose from their point of view why would they?

Yep, I noticed yesterday that my guitar case (which I've had for years) has hinges a lot like some of the clasps found at Sutton Hoo. Somehow, they're not that exciting anyway.

You probably know in reasonable detail what makes up a computer, but if you were writing the biography of a full time computer hacker, it probably wouldn't come up.

Even in stories specifically about swords or other weapons or artifacts, the characteristics that are described are special magical properties, rather than general physical characteristics.

Yep, i havent read or studied Beowulf for years but as i remember it, for a story that focuses nearly entirely on warrior culture and weapons (it's hard to find a bit that doesnt contain the word 'sword'), it doesnt actually really describe the weapons at all.

Despite an entire section dedicated to Beowulf sitting mulling on the fact that swords get passed down and taken as loot in battle and inevitably this creates conflict as generations later someone will identify some ancestral sword of theirs held by another household. At no point does he actually talk about the sword design itself though.

Shame, the existing version of the poem we have in written form is likely a later version of it from at least the 9th century so it fits the vague period of VC, any descriptions in it would have been quite informative but alas.

 

[pRaX]

Heh, there is even twohanded axes in their live action trailer.