How long do your caravans last on e1.2.0 and e1.1.0?

[Revenant342]

Okay, just checking, because the phrasing of "setting" it to a certain percent chance threw me off.

Questions: What party size limit do your caravans have, and what do they generally fill to? Also, do your traders have any tactics skill?

I had four caravans before the patch that had party limits of around 95 that they generally filled to 80-90, and two of the traders had 0 tactics, one had 60, and another had 100. I haven't played since the patch because I didn't want to wreck my save's economy, but I can back it up and let it run to compare survivability.

 

[Depressinho]

People are talking about daily percentage chances for your caravan to get destroyed. I was under the impression it could be physically attacked and destroyed by bandit groups on the map, but are you saying there's a daily RNG chance for the caravan to just randomly die?

the % is derived from this:

mexxico said:
After this change game is runned hundreds of days for testing and still I am testing, I requested some player's save files who complained about their destroyed caravans. What I see is everyday 1 caravan is destroyed in all Calradia in average, in some days this number is 0 in some days it is 2. In total there are about 100 caravans. This means that average days your caravan survives is about 100 days.

To see your caravan 100th day is : 0.99^100 = 0.37 (37%)

In 100 days one caravan brings you 60K profit in average. In total you invested 18K and return is 60K in 100 days. This is average situation. However we cannot guarentee your caravan will not be destroyed at initial days. I know if this happens you become disapointed.

Of course there can be several problems. I see that caravans are not selling their prisoners and this probably slows them down after some point also they gain you relationship with notables after their battles with looters. These will be fixed. There can be some other problems too we will deeply examine it and make it better in next patches.

this aside, it feels much higher than 1%, quite a few people are reporting losing their caravan in the first week multiple times

 

[Midnitewolf]

I'm guessing they don't have hard coded things in the game, like prices and chances of something happening, rather they tried to create a self sustaining environment that works kinda like the real world does, where chance is determined by multiple factors and not just by an hard coded number

And this is their downfall. I mentioned this in another thread were I was talking about how initially none of the towns sell anything remotely decent early game. I mean you can't even window shop that 100k high end piece of armor because it just doesn't exist in the game. What I was told was that the economy starts from zero day one and the shops have have "learn" how to make the better armors and such so that is why they don't show up to late in the game. This is horrible since the economy should start out mature in the first place since the world supposedly existed before your character sets foot in it.

Same thing with how the lords use the same recruiting methods as the player and how after a bit of time, they tend to only field armies of recruits or captured prisoners rather than have many, or sometimes any, high tier faction specific units other than those that came to them as captured prisoners. This is also an issue.

The problem is both systems are too complex and rely on dozens of factors, many of which can't be controlled for it all to work. From what I am reading in this thread, it seems like the issue with Caravans stem from this as well because if you change the way caravans work, it changes the way a city earns income and prosperity, which will have an effect on production in the city, which itself will have an effect on a cities prosperity and so on. There are just too many systems, interacting and relying on other systems, might way too many variables, many of them uncontrollable and/or are based on how the individual plays the game. The result is a broken system.

They would be just better off to auto-populate shops with a random wide range of gear, have the prices go up or down based on prosperity of the city, which is based on just a few, controllable factors. Lord would do better just spawning in with some decent troops after a delay with can be controlled not by available recruits, that might have been depleted by a player, but by what is needed to make the game fun and exciting. Carvans would be better if it was just another cool passive income source for players with small chance that they might be destroyed.

 

[Depressinho]

And this is their downfall. I mentioned this in another thread were I was talking about how initially none of the towns sell anything remotely decent early game. I mean you can't even window shop that 100k high end piece of armor because it just doesn't exist in the game. What I was told was that the economy starts from zero day one and the shops have have "learn" how to make the better armors and such so that is why they don't show up to late in the game. This is horrible since the economy should start out mature in the first place since the world supposedly existed before your character sets foot in it.

Same thing with how the lords use the same recruiting methods as the player and how after a bit of time, they tend to only field armies of recruits or captured prisoners rather than have many, or sometimes any, high tier faction specific units other than those that came to them as captured prisoners. This is also an issue.

The problem is both systems are too complex and rely on dozens of factors, many of which can't be controlled for it all to work. From what I am reading in this thread, it seems like the issue with Caravans stem from this as well because if you change the way caravans work, it changes the way a city earns income and prosperity, which will have an effect on production in the city, which itself will have an effect on a cities prosperity and so on. There are just too many systems, interacting and relying on other systems, might way too many variables, many of them uncontrollable and/or are based on how the individual plays the game. The result is a broken system.

They would be just better off to auto-populate shops with a random wide range of gear, have the prices go up or down based on prosperity of the city, which is based on just a few, controllable factors. Lord would do better just spawning in with some decent troops after a delay with can be controlled not by available recruits, that might have been depleted by a player, but by what is needed to make the game fun and exciting. Carvans would be better if it was just another cool passive income source for players with small chance that they might be destroyed.

The towns running out of money was just a bug, its fixed now.

I think this system can work, i don't mind having to wait a bit of time before buying 100k armor since i would still need to earn the money to do so anyway, regarding lords fielding peasants armies i'm guessing its related to simulated battles giving less xp than before, which could be easily fixed by reverting the system to what it was before for AI vs AI fights only or by having the lords train their armies passively everyday (no idea of what systems they have in place but the player already has this option, so it might not be too hard to implement).

Caravans probably have an "appeal" factor for bandits which was upped in this last patch that can be tweaked as well hopefully and maybe the problem is also related to the bandit situation getting out of hand during big wars.

It's normal during development to have high and lows, to fix something and break something else, this is nothing special we just need to give them time.

 

[Ted Striker]

I think that having caravans with tons of men as big as regular armies was something wrong and I am glad to see that It has been changed. On the other hand, It brings undesirable consecuences which should be addressed. Maybe 15k for a Caravan is too much now and the cost should be lowered, or maybe It is something related to looters being OP in simulated battles, etc. Plus not sure if this is the reason because towns are now running out of money.

I hope we get a hotfix for this soon.

Don't even think there's been mention that they're aware of the problems.

Caravans should not have been nerfed like this without us also being able to choose trade routes, hire more guards for the caravan, hire manhunters etc, or even having AI lords and kingdoms target bandits as much as they target caravans. I mean have you seen how many stacks of bandits can spawn because they're totally ignored?

The towns running out of money was just a bug, its fixed now.

I don't see that in any of the notes. If it's in 1.2.0 beta notes I'll be super pissed because this whole caravan fiasco should have been in beta notes to be tested before being pushed live.

 

[SeventhEnclave]

Wouldn’t it be sensible to have the caravan rather than being destroyed just temporarily disbanded after being beaten.

Then not require the 18k reinvestment but costs could go up whilst the caravan is reformed automatically. Similar to the loss of profit you get just after it starts up.

For the NPCs the net result would appear to be the same. But be less punishing for the player.

 

[Depressinho]

Don't even think there's been mention that they're aware of the problems.

Caravans should not have been nerfed like this without us also being able to choose trade routes, hire more guards for the caravan, hire manhunters etc, or even having AI lords and kingdoms target bandits as much as they target caravans. I mean have you seen how many stacks of bandits can spawn because they're totally ignored?


I don't see that in any of the notes. If it's in 1.2.0 beta notes I'll be super pissed because this whole caravan fiasco should have been in beta notes to be tested before being pushed live.

the problem with cities running out of money is only in the beta 1.2.0 as far as im aware and yes its in today's patch notes

 

[babelfisch]

Wouldn’t it be sensible to have the caravan rather than being destroyed just temporarily disbanded after being beaten. Then not require the reinvestment but costs could go up whilst the caravan is reformed automatically. Similar to the loss of profit you get just after it starts up. For the NPCs the net result would appear to be the same. But be less punishing for the player.

I suggested something similar in another thread. Just let 10/30 troops escape and rebuild until they make profits again.

 

[Depressinho]

I suggested something similar in another thread. Just let 10/30 troops escape and rebuild until they make profits again.

or have your companion escape and reform the caravan if he doesn't die in the attack

 

[SeventhEnclave]

I suggested something similar in another thread. Just let 10/30 troops escape and rebuild until they make profits again.

Seems like a fairer approach. That said I do like that bandits are interacting with caravans now.

similar thing could apply to workshops when a city changes hands.

 

[Depressinho]

Seems like a fairer approach. That said I do like that bandits are interacting with caravans now.

similar thing could apply to workshops when a city changes hands.

honestly workshops could work exactly like in warband (sequestration) and it would be good.

 

[SeventhEnclave]

honestly workshops could work exactly like in warband (sequestration) and it would be good.

I never got that far in warband bannerlord feels much more accessible tbh.

 

[lucas182]

IMO they need to quit nerfing ways of making money in the game and actually come up with stuff for players to spend their money on. After you take 2 cities, you have nothing else you want to buy.

Pendor players know of a little something called Knighthood Orders and Custom Knighthood Orders. THAT's an excellent endgame money sink.

 

[babelfisch]

Seems like a fairer approach. That said I do like that bandits are interacting with caravans now.

similar thing could apply to workshops when a city changes hands.

Absolutely. Ideally your companion survives / escapes like 90% of the time and rebuilds the caravan as Depressinho suggested above. In my opinion that's way better than having invincible caravans that never engage in battles on the world map because nobody dares to attack them. I'd like to rush in and defend caravans like I did in warband when they get attacked.
The changes are definitely a step in the right direction, it's just it enough yet. I hope the Devs ignore the random whining and focus on constructive criticism instead.

 

[Depressinho]

I never got that far in warband bannerlord feels much more accessible tbh.

simply when you were at war with someone if your shop was in one of their cities it would show as "under sequestration" in the weekly finances report and you wouldn't get any money from it until you were at peace again

 

[SeventhEnclave]

simply when you were at war with someone if your shop was in one of their cities it would show as "under sequestration" in the weekly finances report and you wouldn't get any money from it until you were at peace again

That sounds ok to me!

 

[TheWitchIzalith]

simply when you were at war with someone if your shop was in one of their cities it would show as "under sequestration" in the weekly finances report and you wouldn't get any money from it until you were at peace again

I was wondering if the feature was in the game. Perhaps its yet to be implemented or was an oversight. Sequestration of Workshops seems like it should exist in Bannerlord.

Also, Players can literally guard their caravans. For those worried about losing their caravan in the first week before any profit can be had, why don't you just body guard it in the same fashion that the Quests ask you to?

If you are THAT worried about losing 18k, certainly you wouldn't mind roaming around for a week killing bandits (and potentially hide outs on the route) to make it easier for the Caravan?

Far as I am aware, that was one of the Lords duties in medieval times. Not necessarily to guard caravans, but to keep banditry off the road etc. Players are complaining about AI not performing this job, but by the sounds of it many players aren't either.

 

[Lyrsten]

I put the best scouts i can recruit in lead of my caravan (so they see and can avoid enemy hopefully), and i give them very light but good armor with a fast horse to keep their speed up.
Still after updates i rarely see them end up in a fight and they make me way to much money.

隐藏: Making more then enough

 

[Androme1]

Wouldn’t it be sensible to have the caravan rather than being destroyed just temporarily disbanded after being beaten.

Then not require the 18k reinvestment but costs could go up whilst the caravan is reformed automatically. Similar to the loss of profit you get just after it starts up.

For the NPCs the net result would appear to be the same. But be less punishing for the player.

Support.

 

[Depressinho]

I was wondering if the feature was in the game. Perhaps its yet to be implemented or was an oversight. Sequestration of Workshops seems like it should exist in Bannerlord.

Also, Players can literally guard their caravans. For those worried about losing their caravan in the first week before any profit can be had, why don't you just body guard it in the same fashion that the Quests ask you to?

If you are THAT worried about losing 18k, certainly you wouldn't mind roaming around for a week killing bandits (and potentially hide outs on the route) to make it easier for the Caravan?

Far as I am aware, that was one of the Lords duties in medieval times. Not necessarily to guard caravans, but to keep banditry off the road etc. Players are complaining about AI not performing this job, but by the sounds of it many players aren't either.

it takes an average of 54 days for the caravan to pay for itself and start making money and after that you need to keep guarding it if you want to make some money, i'd like to actually play the game instead of guarding caravans 24/7