How is the economy now?

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"...if they're not otherwise at war" is the issue then. I haven't played since 2020 but it's good to hear the AI does go after bandits, but it has to do so during war as well because the map is almost always at war.

Maybe tie bandit control to castles. Castles have garrisons and are historically used to control the surrounding lands. Those castles can maybe produce a patrolling garrison that hunts down nearby bandits, regardless of war. If bandits reach some critical state of population in the area the castle should react.

I don't know how to balance it properly without leaving it highly vulnerable to exploiting but something should be done.
I forget which mod does it, I think Freelancer before it was scrapped, would release wandering garrison parties from nearby settlements to intercept bandits (and others). There were also Manhunters that did this in WB, but were not included. I do not think Garrisons were picked up, could be wrong.

Hey @Duh_TaleWorlds so can you confirm AI vs AI lord death in 1.6.3 and Garrisons in 1.6.4 :wink: ?
 
I suggested in another thread to have a value for bandit lair "strength", which would very gradually increase or recover over time. At low strength, the bandit parties would be small, and therefore fast and hard for the larger armies to catch. As bandit strength increases, bigger parties spawn, and those become more and more vulnerable to being caught by regular army units or patrols. As they suffer losses, strength decreases and the parties spawn at a small size again. The only way to "solve" the bandit issue would be to do enough damage often enough that their strength never has a chance to recover, and only one or two small parties would be out chasing peasants, but far too small to take on caravans. As long as you make periodic sweeps, you should be able to keep the bandit population somewhat in check. They would always come back eventually, however.

Tying it to character level is just wrong. I HATED that in games like Oblivion and Fallout 3 where leveling made the game harder, not easier, unless you exploited the system. That made RP difficult, even if it was fine for min/max players out to "beat" the game, and a lot of character builds were simply not viable because your combat skills would fall increasingly behind on the leveling curve.

As for the economy, there's an economy?
 
"Economy" as in ways to make money and how balanced it remains throughout the game, and it was not balanced at all last year.

I do like the idea of bandit strength tied to lairs too, but the two biggest problems seem to be that strength is tied to character level (agreed, terrible idea) and that the AI ignores bandits when in war, and the AI is always in war.

And even if some factions are not in war, caravans will be passing through or near lands that are, as well as villagers. It cripples the usefulness of caravans and stifles the trading going on in the background that keeps cities supplied and items in demand.

But again, maybe I'm expecting too much from the background sim aspect.
 
No... I gathered most of that before I joined a kingdom. Do a Youtube search for Halcylion's money printer... It's basically a loop - starting at Askar for horses... then selling them in Vlandia, picking up more horses in Senon, then selling them through Sturgia or the central Empire... At each stop pick up the cheapest produce and sell it as you go - ending up back at Askar. If you start with 100 horses, each loop can net you a quarter of a million profit amd 10 to 20 trade points.

If you do this, picking off bandits and bandit bases along the way, you'll end up with a good sized party as well. I really only use workshops to cover the cost of my party - everything else comes from trade. As Ananda says above, caravans are pointless past mid-game. They're too vulnerable. I use my companions to gain relations with the cities I like.

I try to avoid constant war where I can and only step in when it looks like my faction will lose a city. Constant war is a grind and you never get to manage your fiefs. Sometimes you have no choice but to go on the offensive.

Edit: Don't get me wrong tho.... some playthroughs I barely scrape by with the clothes on my back and everything goes bad. Some I end up with more cash than I can ever use.
yeah that sounds horrible. I make boatloads from smithing just the right axe. easy to acquire materials, converted to axes that sell for 10k each. I really like the crafting int he game, it's grindy yes, but not as bad as running circles around the map.
 
I suggested in another thread to have a value for bandit lair "strength", which would very gradually increase or recover over time. At low strength, the bandit parties would be small, and therefore fast and hard for the larger armies to catch. As bandit strength increases, bigger parties spawn, and those become more and more vulnerable to being caught by regular army units or patrols. As they suffer losses, strength decreases and the parties spawn at a small size again. The only way to "solve" the bandit issue would be to do enough damage often enough that their strength never has a chance to recover, and only one or two small parties would be out chasing peasants, but far too small to take on caravans. As long as you make periodic sweeps, you should be able to keep the bandit population somewhat in check. They would always come back eventually, however.

Tying it to character level is just wrong. I HATED that in games like Oblivion and Fallout 3 where leveling made the game harder, not easier, unless you exploited the system. That made RP difficult, even if it was fine for min/max players out to "beat" the game, and a lot of character builds were simply not viable because your combat skills would fall increasingly behind on the leveling curve.

As for the economy, there's an economy?
yeah, anything would be better than tying it to player level, the way it is now you are actually punishing all factions and the entire economy of the game simply by getting stronger since bandit strength accompanies your-special-self for some reason lol

Maybe we should make a formal thread in the suggestions subforum to attract dev attention to this.
 
That same mechanism spelled doom for settlements in Fallout 3. As the player level increased, nastier critters spawned, until they overwhelmed any settlements the player character went past, but didn't actually stop to defend.
 
yeah that sounds horrible. I make boatloads from smithing just the right axe. easy to acquire materials, converted to axes that sell for 10k each. I really like the crafting int he game, it's grindy yes, but not as bad as running circles around the map.

Each to their own. If I wanted to play a blacksmith simulator I'd....

... probably not have a lot to do... Neither will you once they've nerfed it.
 
Workshops are more balanced, they give a little money. I think it's the right amounts. They are not overpowered.
Caravans are a money sink, they always get raided.

Cities and castles give a bit of money but to really survive if you want a decent army and defense in your castles you have to earn the big money yourself. And that is how it should be imo. So I'd say the economy is okay right now even though there is a lot to improve it's playable.
 
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Economy is pretty good now. It is a viable way of playing the game. I am combating bandits and looters, doing quest doing arenas buying better armor recruiting wanderers etc while doing my trade runs.
 
So after about two weeks I'm finding the "economy" not much different than it used to be. I had to resort to smithing once again to generate a steady enough income. I'm not a fan of playing as a trader running from town to town, so that's not an option for me.

Workshops suck. No matter where I build them they barely make any money. I kept two just to see if they would improve over time. Nope. Not worth the investment at all.

Caravans are a much better option. They take a little longer to get going since you really should find a good companion and have them fight alongside you for a while to build some core skills and perks, but once you let them loose with a caravan they make pretty good money. I have two currently and they're making anywhere between 300 - 1,000 total. Cost me 45,000 to start and some time with the companions but worth it so far. Both caravans have been attacked a few times but since I spent some time training those companions like I wanted they're holding up just fine - so far anyway.

Being a mercenary was bringing in some good money but it requires a constant state of war, and in my current game that's not happening. I was doing great being a merc for Monchug but he suddenly declared peace and now I was scrambling to make money (I was still training my future caravan companions at that time and largely ignored smithing because I was hoping I wouldn't need it now). I had to run all the way to Vlandia to be a merc again, and then they declared peace. Had to desperately trade aserai horses to Vlandia over and over in the hopes of not going bankrupt and slowly train my smithing up because I knew that was the key. I was relying on loot and prisoners and that merc wage but when everyone is at peace you don't have access to that and suddenly your income to expense ratio plummets. The only wars going on were with minor clans. That's no good.

I also had major issues after giving a companion their own party. When fighting for Monchug I made my brother into his own party. He amassed an expensive one (for the time) with over 130 troops, and while I was out in the field fighting and making money I found him wandering around the Khuzait lands as part of an army doing nothing at all. Cost a lot of money to maintain a party that wandered around doing nothing. And then peace was declared and now that party was draining my coffers fast. I didn't know how to disband it either at first so for a few days I had to suck up that expense while hunting down Monchug to ask him to end my contract. That party did absolutely nothing. It never fought a single battle, just wandered around in a worthless army costing me money. When I went to Vlandia to be a merc I kept him as a fighting companion only. You ain't costing me money like that again dumbass brother!

That's a part of the "economy" I'd love to have more control over: tell my companions not to join any AI armies but to only get out there and fight and earn your keep. Armies are too slow for mercenaries and rarely award any kills.

So for future starts I'm going have to rely on the old tried and true smithing from early on, forget workshops exist, work on building caravan companions as early as possible instead of fighting companions, and not give anyone their own party because they don't know what to do with them. I can't focus on trading, I find it so boring and tedious just running from town to town like I'm a medieval truck driver, but I do know it's a viable strategy.
 
When I last played this last year the economy was all kinds of screwed up. Workshops barely gave any income and caravans were just fodder - a total waste of money. Smithing seemed to be the only reliable way to make money outside of constant combat but it felt so cheesy.

Have they made improvements to it finally? And if not, are there mods to improve it? I'm reinstalling and don't want to resort to the smithing cheese method again.
Yeah, it's disapointing to work really hard for a workshop that gives...100 or 200 gold. It's maybe fair, but it's not fun.

Smithing is still OP, but not as bad as before.

Trading is ok, you can pick up some horses and do some horse trading for a little while to get your own gear kitted out. Its fine for the early and mid game.

 
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