How does the Communist Theory do now?

[NordArcher]

Karl Marx and Engel describe what the Bourgeosie and Proletariat are, and how the first one oppresses the last. This is in The Communist Party Manifest.

My question is, to you economy and sociology understanding people, is the middle class an evolution to the Proletariat? Has the Communist Theory as expressed in The Communist Party Manifest obsolete today? Since there is no more Proletariat that "survives".

 

[Foxtrot Juliett]

Yes it is obsolete. And the proposed solution to the oppression of the masses thingy was wrong in the first place (if "power corrupts", then what's of the State after it has taken all of it?). Yet the sentiment of protecting the lower classes from its misfortunes and possible abuses will always be positive and relevant.

 

[Wolfang]

'Twas a great idea. Unfortunately it was an idea made for another species.

 

[Lueii]

Communism assumes men are angels.  The problem is were devils.

 

[NordArcher]

Maybe another species would not have had capitalism problems in the first place . By capitalism i mean concentration of riches.

 

[Lueii]

Maybe another species would not have had capitalism problems in the first place . By capitalism i mean concentration of riches.

Capitalim is a system that knows men are devils and uses that fact against us.

 

[Revilo]

I'm not sure about you Lueii, but I consider myself to be anything but a personification of evil.

 

[Lueii]

I'm not sure about you Lueii, but I consider myself to be anything but a personification of evil.

If you get the same food per week if you make a thousand bricks or one, you make one.  It assumes that you will reap wheat for peole you don't know.  It assumes men will be angels.

 

[Revilo]

Didn't really add anything there Lueii, you've only stated that to be an angel one must be generous and/or selfless. I still don't see how this constitutes as all men being the devil. If that was the case then does that include priests, even the pope? Surely then if there is a heaven it to is populated by people, and thus devils.

 

[Lueii]

Didn't really add anything there Lueii, you've only stated that to be an angel one must be generous and/or selfless. I still don't see how this constitutes as all men being the devil.

Poetic license. I simply mean were inherently selfish.

If that was the case then does that include priests, even the pope?

I'm protestant.

Surely then if there is a heaven it to is populated by people, and thus devils.

Ex devils.  Made pure by christ.

 

[Foxtrot Juliett]

I see, heaven is filled with Communists!

 

[Overlord-]

NordArcher, are you some kind of freaking communistic activist? 

 

[Lueii]

I see, heaven is filled with Communists!

 

[Wheem]

By capitalism i mean concentration of riches.

That's like saying, "By dog I mean creature that lives in the ocean."

Anyway, communism was an atrocious idea from day 1. I completely reject the notion that it'd be "good" if people were "good" - it might work for something like the Borg from Star Trek, but otherwise it does too much to quash individualism and stifle the creative forces that drive civilization and increase all of our living standards.

The profit and loss system of capitalism has dramatically raised the living standards of everyone it has touched. The main trouble with capitalism today, is getting bad (and undeserved) PR. It's constantly plagued by being confused with corporatism, which in reality is distinctly different from capitalism. Secondly, since capitalism can't magically transform a poor country into a rich one overnight, people incessantly blame preexisting problems on capitalism.

 

[Heafodban]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Thought this might be relevant.

 

[Revilo]

*Snip*

Just typed a lengthy reply to Lueii and then realised this isn't a topic about religious debate. Waste of a few minutes indeed.

 

[Temuzu]

Im good. Thanks for asking.

Hows that capitalism thing working out for y'all?

 

[NordArcher]

I would like you to read the books before you even make conjectures. Communism sets some clear and simple laws that any country could make regardless of angels or devils.

Communism was an excellent idea when it was released, but you have to see that it was 130 years ago that they wrotte their manifest. Society by then didn't resemble society we have now.

That's the whole point of my question. Is it still usefull?

This isn't a "communism is good" vs "communism is bad" thread.

Karl Marx and Engels use the word "capitalist" to refer to someone who owns means of production and capital.

 

[Lueii]

Problem with communism is they expect you to serve others selflessly and work for what you recieve.  If we don't have to we won't.

Edit:

Just typed a lengthy reply to Lueii and then realised this isn't a topic about religious debate. Waste of a few minutes indeed.

Heheh...just noted that?

 

[Heafodban]

Karl Marx and Engels use the word "capitalist" to refer to someone who owns means of production and capital.

Oh, so make the government the Capitalist, what a great idea.