How come salerions were made useless?

[reallybigjohnson]

i was just reading the faq and basically it said that the salerions were completely useless as a faction overall.    what was the point of bothering to put them in then.    are they this games version of the kherjit?  wouldnt it be possible to give them at least something like really good knights?

 

[mp84]

i was just reading the faq and basically it said that the salerions were completely useless as a faction overall.    what was the point of bothering to put them in then.    are they this games version of the kherjit?  wouldnt it be possible to give them at least something like really good knights?

They have a really good knighthood order (Order of the Lion) and their Sarleon Halberds can do some massive damage against horse bases troops, plus next to Pendor Base units, they are the cheapest to field, so you can replenish your loses quite quickly.. Playing as the Sarleon (not "Salerions", this ain't the Mass Effect universe, lol)  is not as bad people think, you just have to know how to play them.. Most peoples complaints seems solely based on their location, since their in the middle of the map, they usually get in tough conflicts with Empire, Ravenstern or Fierdsvain... So, they usually seem to be the odd-man faction if you don't play them and most of the time the first to go.. If you play them on the other hand by being a Vassal, it's a little better as you can single handily turn the tide sometimes especially when you get to become Marshal..

Ideally, the center is a great start position because you have great possibilities to expand anywhere, hence why most of the time when going independent, players prefer to take their lands instead, plus Sarleon Town is the ideal start location since the Tournament it hosts are all Jousting, so it's easy money

The AI MV and TB coded has made the campaign a little better, but there's honestly just stuff we can't do because of "hard-coded" limitations of WB itself, so if you've never tried them, do as their not as bad as people say

 

[Akael]

Sarleons aren't useless. Their longbowmen aren't the best, but they have very strong armor and can hold their own in a melee and even against cavalry. Their knights are on-par with any other faction, and their infantry uses extremely strong weapons like the great maul and sarleon halberd. All this, and very cheap to train and field. Just don't go up against a lot of archers without mercenary cavalry to help.

All of this means I usually go to them when I need extra infantry, especially for a siege scenario. Train them to Man at Arms in two nights, and expend them in the next three.

Personally, I feel the weakest faction is actually the Fierdsvain, though they are even more vulnerable to archers and I play Ravenstern, so maybe I'm biased.

Edit: It should also be noted that many of their castles require siege towers, more than other factions. They can be quite adept at holding their land, should they receive such challenges.

 

[Aetavicus]

Castles with ladders are much harder to take imo as only one enemy soldier is fighting at a time whereas siege towers allow at least 3 soldiers to attack your ranks at once.

I don't find Sarleon Halberdiers as good as some people say they are though. They have a high chance of doing the useless 0 damage thrust attack.

 

[noosers]

If they ever close the gap. Nothing like potshotting or poleaxing tower shovers. Or closing the chokepoint with some heavy troops and slaying a gazillion helpless foes on the tower.

Tower defense are awesome - it usually enables you to take out the most dangerous troops (who naturally spawn first) from a safe distance. 120 Valdis Huscalrs shoving a Siege Tower are a lot easier and cost efficient to kill than 120 Valdis Huscarls running up the ladder - or, if you´re the true masochist and installed the Siege Enhance Pack, ladders.

Siege Tower offenses are great as well. They´re one of the great moments for Empire Crossbows.

 

[MiniMacker]

I find the Sarleon one of the most lethal enemies. Well, except maybe for the D'shar.

In open-field combat, their archers are laughably bad, but during sieges, their Armoured Longbowmen are just insane. Massive health pool combined with kickass armour and the longbow?! These guys tear through shields like there was no tomorrow. Their infantry, however, is fantastic during open-field combat. They just knock you off your horses with the Halberd. However, the halberd is too unwieldy and will mostly just stagger against close-combat enemies on ladders.

 

[NicotiN]

i was just reading the faq and basically it said that the salerions were completely useless as a faction overall.    what was the point of bothering to put them in then.    are they this games version of the kherjit?  wouldnt it be possible to give them at least something like really good knights?

Play more with them, when i play with other factions i really have a hard time to make progress in the begining but with sarleon everything is cheap and strong. I just hate them, i kills thousands of Sarleon but they keep coming so fast and their dirt cheap troops kill my very hard trained troops. Fighting them on a hill is a nice way to test your troop mix
There is absolutly no useless troop in pop, everything has his use and flavour.
Who can remember the first ambush of scorpion assassins? although you can never mass train them. The first charge of adventure companies with their awesome knights, the first encounter with empire crossbow men in sieges, the sarleon hammer infantry, the ravenstern archers Add to that the insanely mixed troops in some cases and the unique spawns

 

[Diablodude]

I just started my newest game intending to vassel up with Sarleon until I begin my own kingdom. After six hours invested, while we haven't gained any territory, I have to say I'm more impressed with Sarleon than I expected.

We've held off attacks from the Empire, Fierdsvain, and Ravenstern at the same time, with no loss of territory, and scores of field battles & sieges.

We've just made peace with the first two after a long couple months of fighting, and I'm expecting us to start steamrolling over Ravenstern.


I think I'm going to jump ship after we gain a decent advantage and help out the D'shar though. The Empire took a couple castles from them, and they're currently at war with the Fierdsvain.


Main point being: Sarleon far from sucks... When you're in it, at least.

 

[noosers]

Just wait till you can acquire their true strenght and powerhouse - the Sarleon Knights and the Knights of the Lion. They eat things and don´t care to wrap up the leftovers for a midnight snack because they simply pluck another one if they feel like it.

 

[Diablodude]

I can't say I've ever used them personally. I've been playing PoP for maybe a year, and I usually go the route of merc-units before founding my own kingdom. I have a few knights, not enough to be a force on the battlefield though. I love how their infantry chew through other factions' cavalry though- Melee cavalry that is.

I play every once in awhile buddied up with the Fierdsvain, or Ravenstern, but I usually leave the other factions to their own affairs. The Empire I just don't like the feel of, and the times I've tried starting as a D'shar lord have typically ended early on, with Vaseline handed out in pity by the Singalian Slavers.

 

[Sir Fleymark]

I find the Sarleon one of the most lethal enemies. Well, except maybe for the D'shar.

In open-field combat, their archers are laughably bad, but during sieges, their Armoured Longbowmen are just insane. Massive health pool combined with kickass armour and the longbow?! These guys tear through shields like there was no tomorrow. Their infantry, however, is fantastic during open-field combat. They just knock you off your horses with the Halberd. However, the halberd is too unwieldy and will mostly just stagger against close-combat enemies on ladders.

Have anyone tried to use Sarleon troops to fight Jatu army? If it's true that their halberdiers are effective against horsemen, that will be good news for me. Just finished the quest "Befriending the Noldor" and really dislike the result - the Jatu wiped out my army and I barely survived with all companions K.O. and some wounded footmen. Hell!! 

 

[Shingen]

I beat that 225 Noldor raiding Jatu army with 85 units. 10 companions, 35 Mounted rangers and 35 foot Rangers. I used the 10 companions as spear infantry, set the foot Rangers behind them and harrased the Jatu with the mounted Rangers. Once you stop their charge, the Jatu are pretty weak. It's their initial charge that kills you. Rangers are pretty effective with the wall of arrows trick too.

I think I lost 10 rangers, 20-25 knocked out, and captured about 40 of the Jatu.  I think I made like 6k in loot.

 

[Rojiru]

Polearms aren't useful when used by AI aside from the fact that they are long and almost always have a lot of damage on the swing, mostly talking about the empire and sarleon halbierds.

When it comes to the horse stopped power of the pointy end - AI wouldn't know how to time that if Treebeard pounded it into their thicky heads.

 

[Sir Fleymark]

I beat that 225 Noldor raiding Jatu army with 85 units. 10 companions, 35 Mounted rangers and 35 foot Rangers. I used the 10 companions as spear infantry, set the foot Rangers behind them and harrased the Jatu with the mounted Rangers. Once you stop their charge, the Jatu are pretty weak. It's their initial charge that kills you. Rangers are pretty effective with the wall of arrows trick too.

I think I lost 10 rangers, 20-25 knocked out, and captured about 40 of the Jatu.  I think I made like 6k in loot.

You used Ravenstern troops? Well, my question is about Sarleon vs Jatu. Not the Ravenstern. That's a nice tactic, though. Haven't played much with Ravenstern Mounted Rangers....
What I usually did when facing them in a battle is killing their horses first . Fortunately their horses are quite weak, so it worked quite well. 

So, the conclusion of employing Halberdiers= not good against Jatu? 

 

[noosers]

Sarleon vs Jatu?

A ton of men at arms intermixed with halberdiers safely hiding behind those shields screening a line of armoured longbowmen as well on top of a forrested hill or the infantry in a river and the archers just behind them for maximum jatu bloodbath.

 

[Babaganoush]

Anything with a polearm works. The man at arms, which is a level before the halberdier, is equipped with a pike I believe. On top of that, it's easier to make men at arms since a step below them is level 20. Trying to make a massive amount of halberdiers is close to impossible without a bunch of level 30+ companions training them... and even then with the amount of exp they need to level up... the man at arms would probably die before he reaches the next glorious stage.

If my legionnaires/heavy infantry and pikemen/armored pikemen could fight off an army of Jatu 500 vs 200, so can your your Sarleon units. Just make sure you always have some shield units liked you armored footman, and have shield wall formation up. The worst thing about the Jatu is their initial charge. After that, thanks to the AI who doesn't know how to pull back and lance again, they should be a piece of cake.

 

[noosers]

Men at Arms have got a chance to spawn with an Awlpike, which is quite deadly as it is. However, the far greater amount of them comes with a Shield and a Morningstart. Which isn´t the greatest weapon booted, true, but works perfectly well against the Jatu Battleriders and Warlords.

Crush the tin open. That´s the whole point.

 

[mr48]

One really nice thing about Sarleon is that their Knights often spawn with blunt war-hammers, which tends to net you lots and lots of prisoners  for either an awesome cash infusion or quick army replenishment. And  while the Knights of the Lion are very similar in terms of skill, proficiencies, armor and weapons to most of the faction knighthood orders, they get the best horses, which are heavily armored with lots of HP but are still very fast. A deadly combination.

I am actually not a fan of Halberdiers because their lack of shields means they get cut down like grass when faced against any ranged enemy.

 

[drunkhobo]

Despite having access to Pendor units, I still field Sarleon Halberd troops as a separate troop group to protect my archer line. They work amazingly.