How are troop trees feeling now?

[KingEroc1st]

Really I feel like they're the first to go down I wish I could keep them behind the shield wall, but I can't micro 5+ groups when there is a big battle it's too much for me to try to do more than 4 effectively. They keep charging ahead because they have no shield and die so fast to archers.

put all your infantry without shield into formation 5/6/7/8 and position them behind your shield wall. then charge them when the enemy is close

 

[black_bulldog]

put all your infantry without shield into formation 5/6/7/8 and position them behind your shield wall. then charge them when the enemy is close

As I said the problem is if your battlefield is in a town those troops spawn next to the enemy and get slaughtered. Until that bug gets fixed I won't use them because I can't keep assigning and reassigning troops constantly because I eventually forget. This bug has been around for some time and TW still hasn't taken care of it.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

As I said the problem is if your battlefield is in a town those troops spawn next to the enemy and get slaughtered. Until that bug gets fixed I won't use them because I can't keep assigning and reassigning troops constantly because I eventually forget. This bug has been around for some time and TW still hasn't taken care of it.

Until that gets fixed, what I like to do is just retreat from the map and try move for a better map. The retreat feature is broken right now, but I don't mind using it against broken map placement. Of course, this doesn't work all the time, but its better than nothing.

 

[black_bulldog]

Until that gets fixed, what I like to do is just retreat from the map and try move for a better map. The retreat feature is broken right now, but I don't mind using it against broken map placement. Of course, this doesn't work all the time, but its better than nothing.

My problem is I'll forget until I get into battle then I start seeing troops dropping like flies and I get pissed and exit the game.

 

[Eugene Shutto]

As I said the problem is if your battlefield is in a town those troops spawn next to the enemy and get slaughtered. Until that bug gets fixed I won't use them because I can't keep assigning and reassigning troops constantly because I eventually forget. This bug has been around for some time and TW still hasn't taken care of it.

I had like 10-12 line breakers of sturgia when I was raiding one village , and they spawn right on the enemy . Militia of this village outnumbered my line breakers in 3 times, so I have no choice but to charge . I couldn't believe to my eyes when line breakers murdered militia troops and made them ran . They are pure monsters.

 

[CrazyElf]

Most ppl agree (from what I read) that heavy armor is weak against ranged units that only good protection is shield what make archers useless against shielded units even if they have no real armor (like t2 with shields) but too effective like having rifles against heavy armor (t5/t6) - I do not talk about point blank range ofc.
It is problem in most games making some (AP) weapons rather ignoring usually 50 percent of armor value instead of just lowering it by some flat value not whole half of it. (Armor dissapered later becasue soldiers became cheaper then armors unfortunately for "peasants" could be soldiers with same use as overpriced nobles with good armors (politics too) but quantinty (of former peasants with no strings attached) had its own quality.)

Last patch changing armor values disapointed me though as if idea was to make armor better but aesthetically and practically (especially halving arm armor value which even takes 20 percent more dmg and leg armor (20 per less) values as if this man/woman never played the game) made armor worse than before and still having best gear locked by prosperity of town and clan level is not good, again let it be about money then until better mechanics is implemented (like noble status etc).

I agree - the last patch was not the right way to do it. The armor nerfs should be reversed right away and if anything I would argue the last patch didn't go far enough in buffing armor.

Armor isn't invulnerable and in turn, I would like to see more blunt weapons introduced. 2 handed blunt weapons (think 2 handed maces and warhammers) and polearms (historically halberds were used) for killing armored units.

Blunt weaopns in turn would be not as good against large numbers of weak units (ex: they rock against a small number of tier 5 units with armor, but are less good against a large number of weak infantry).

I hope that noble line for all factions will be somehow more accesible (I would have rather problem financing them than finding them) while recruit line should support noble one in what they lack. So if nobles line is heavy cavalry then recruit line should be medium or ranged. Medium like javelin throwers but with more than one bag. Hopefully if cavalry will get fixed using onehanded weapons especially shorter ones like axes / maces efficiently (like chargint to enemy line and hammering them instead of runing away after one or no hit at all) then there will be no need to making them jacks of all trades. (or giving one bag/quiver on a horse or lance).

If this is the case, then the noble line needs to be made proportionally more powerful. For example, right now a tier 4 unit costs 8 gold, a tier 5 unit costs 12 gold, and a tier 6 unit costs 18 gold.

If the bottleneck is now money (ex: you make the unit a tier 7, which would cost 26 gold), the units need to be more powerful than they are now to be "worth it". Think even better gear and on the order of 300 stats.

 

[CrazyElf]

Agreed, I would also say for Vlandia that Sergeants, Pikemen and Voulgiers feel too similar in function. Take away the Sergeant's polearm perhaps.

The Sergeants would need something else to buff them. Maybe throwing weapons? We want the tier 5 Sergeant to be competitive, but a distinct unit, not just from the other units, but also from the Imperial Legion. Currently he has a shield, which makes him a distinct unit from the polearm armed Voulgier and Pikemen. The problem is that the throwing weapons are not the Vlandians "style".

Supposedly, pikemen will have the ability to brace, which will make them extra good against cavalry.

Until that gets fixed, what I like to do is just retreat from the map and try move for a better map. The retreat feature is broken right now, but I don't mind using it against broken map placement. Of course, this doesn't work all the time, but its better than nothing.

I agree. I think there should be a motion where if you order a retreat, your units have to walk strategically giving ground. Shielded units may even go backwards at times, trying to keep their shields facing the enemy.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

The Sergeants would need something else to buff them. Maybe throwing weapons? We want the tier 5 Sergeant to be competitive, but a distinct unit, not just from the other units, but also from the Imperial Legion. Currently he has a shield, which makes him a distinct unit from the polearm armed Voulgier and Pikemen. The problem is that the throwing weapons are not the Vlandians "style".

Supposedly, pikemen will have the ability to brace, which will make them extra good against cavalry.

Sergeants used to be really strong thanks to the short bills they once had. Made them very capable of crushing other melee infantry even without throwables. What I did for my own mod was give them those, along with swords and good two handed skills. I also gave them better armour too, but no spears. They're really strong melee purists as a result.

 

[nereid]

Sergeants used to be really strong thanks to the short bills they once had. Made them very capable of crushing other melee infantry even without throwables. What I did for my own mod was give them those, along with swords and good two handed skills. I also gave them better armour too, but no spears. They're really strong melee purists as a result.

Doesn't that clash with the Voulgiers? They do have two handers now. IMHO Sergeants should get strong one handers and good shields. Maybe even a little bit more armor. Make them purely melee heavy infantry.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Doesn't that clash with the Voulgiers? They do have two handers now. IMHO Sergeants should get strong one handers and good shields. Maybe even a little bit more armor. Make them purely melee heavy infantry.

I would remove the two handers from voulgiers and make them stick with voulges. Voulges are far better, but Voulgiers themselves suck because they won't actually use voulges against infantry. I'd also remove their throwing axes then again to make them more Vlandian.

Oh, I probably wouldn't give every sergeant a two hander either, just maybe one in three, which I find is enough to make a difference.

 

[nereid]

I would remove the two handers from voulgiers and make them stick with voulges. Voulges are far better, but Voulgiers themselves suck because they won't actually use voulges against infantry. I'd also remove their throwing axes then again to make them more Vlandian.

Oh, I probably wouldn't give every sergeant a two hander either, just maybe one in three, which I find is enough to make a difference.

Or give the Sergeants simply good shields and a two hander that can also be wielded with one hand. This would make them rather unique.

 

[lukkyb]

Yeah they should but they don't always. I want to put them into group 5 but if you end up getting a village scene they spawn right on the enemy and are down in an instant until that crap gets fixed I don't use them that way so I don't use them. I expect to see t5 units go down now and again but the rate they die is usually at least 2-3x what a shielded melee unit would be and I'd rather not see them dropping like flies.

wasnt this bug fixed recently? as in the fromations should all spawn with you now

 

[black_bulldog]

wasnt this bug fixed recently? as in the fromations should all spawn with you now

I haven't checked in a week or so but when 1.5.4 released it was still happening.

 

[CrazyElf]

Sergeants used to be really strong thanks to the short bills they once had. Made them very capable of crushing other melee infantry even without throwables. What I did for my own mod was give them those, along with swords and good two handed skills. I also gave them better armour too, but no spears. They're really strong melee purists as a result.

To be honest, I would like to see that brought back into the main game.

It would make them a bit more distinct from the other units.

I think it would be ok - Vlandia has some really weak units and some stronger units.



I'm not saying this Youtuber has the final word, but it looks so far that the Khuzaits have the best ratio of strong to mid to weak tier units. That may be partly why people are complaining frequently that they are OP (that and their campaign speed/autoresolve advantages).

 

[black_bulldog]

I had like 10-12 line breakers of sturgia when I was raiding one village , and they spawn right on the enemy . Militia of this village outnumbered my line breakers in 3 times, so I have no choice but to charge . I couldn't believe to my eyes when line breakers murdered militia troops and made them ran . They are pure monsters.

I guess you have better luck than me because I recruit these guys from my prisoners and I may have 5-10 of these guys in an army of 200. There are always a few of them that are wounded and typically at least 1-2 dead after every battle. They do great damage but they are faster than anyone else because of no shield so they are always ahead of the infantry and if they get surrounded they go down quick. They are glass cannons. If I was better at micro managing I might be able to do a better job with them but because battles are so fast paced I don't have the time or the skill to keep them alive.