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Horse menavlion needs to be removed

Do you think that menavlion should be considered as a pike and be forbidden on a horseback??


  • Total voters
    57

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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I feel the problem with cav in siege being just a swarm is an issue separate from cav menavlion

Exactly, this is also a subject for another debate.

As we all know, in Warband few players would venture to take a horse in a siege because of how worthless it was. In Bannerlord, on the other hand, there seem to be rails tailored into scenes for cavalry classes in siege modes.

As I see it, there is the solution that more than one has commented about, which is to increase the price of cavalry units by favouring the use of melee and ranged units. I mean really, who the hell would take a horse to a siege?

However there is a problem (as I see it) which will not be in the eyes of the devs as they will probably find it amusing or that creates a fun. I'm talking about the animations.

Again, in Warband if you chose for example a 2h long axe being a huscarl and for whatever reason you took a horse, the swing animation offered by the axe on foot disappears as an option only allowing 1h thrusts as if it were a spear.

If you took that kind of penalty to Bannerlord I think it would cut down on the disproportionate polearm party hard usage on horseback. I would only allow the glaive khuzait (with a reduced size) as the only weapon that allows that kind of animations on horseback; as I said before.

And while we're speaking about that kind of animations, I go back to Warband again. There we had two-handed weapons, such as bastard swords, axes, bardiches...etc... that worked as two-handed swinged weapons on foot, but if the player decided to take a horse it became a 1h weapon. I would bring back that to Bannerlord. The moment a player would be playing with a Savage, Fiann, Guard ...etc equipped with a 2h weapon and decide to take a horse, their weapon use would be transformed because they would be playing a class role for which it is not intended. In such a situation, these weapons would suffer a detriment in terms of performance, making swings slower and at 1h.

That's what I think... a bit of restriction so that this doesn't turn into a piñata fest... if it isn't already. Controversial, I know.
 

Ulfkarl

Regular
glaives and menavlions on horseback must go directly to the trashcan, they break game balance in captain mode aswell
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
glaives and menavlions on horseback must go directly to the trashcan, they break game balance in captain mode aswell
With the menavlion we agree, however with the glaive of khuzait (lancer) due to its historical background, both for its implementation in Warband and its real and totally plausible use throughout history, I would preserve it as "unique/faction" weapon (applying the restrictions previously mentioned).

If, for example, a player having chosen a Khan's guard took its glaive and decided to take a "borrowed" horse, in my point of view and "by acquired inheritance", that glaive would only allow 1h thrust as a spear as it happened in Warband. In my previous comment I talk about that kind of animation restrictions applied to a bad use of class.
 

hoonii

Knight
its fine with glaive its high risk-reward as you wont have a shield when swinging, cake for archers and throwing spears, menavlion on horseback needs to go or it should be nerfed to the point where it deals the same damage as a twig and only deal around 50 damage to unarmored with full speed bonus, because its a 130 gold unit and can be spammed so easily
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Played a bit of TDM this morning, basically forced to go Empire team because otherwise you'll face 30 menalvion cavs riding around
 
its fine with glaive its high risk-reward as you wont have a shield when swinging, cake for archers and throwing spears, menavlion on horseback needs to go or it should be nerfed to the point where it deals the same damage as a twig and only deal around 50 damage to unarmored with full speed bonus, because its a 130 gold unit and can be spammed so easily
+
One of worst things about cavalry menavliatons (compared to khuzait lancers) is that its costs absolutely nothing, and can be spammed without a recharge even if you fail a lot, considering it requires reacton of a turtle for players to use it for some effectivness in siege and TDM, 50-70% of imperial team goes into full cavmenavmode
Who cares about menavlion, only like 5 kiddies in TDM/Siege run around with it and farm kills, useless kills at least for siege since they don't really contribute much to the tide of the battle... Skirmish it is fairly useless since there are actually skilled players who punish lack of a shield. Let the kiddies have their fun. Sad!
If menavlion is so useless in your favorite Skirmish mode... Why keep it then? Dont you want some actually good perk in that place instead? I though i stated that clear in start of a thread, this perk is both awful on TDM and Siege (OP and low skill required) and on Skirmish (useless waste of perk)
 

FearSpear

Squire
I though i stated that clear in start of a thread, this perk is both awful on TDM and Siege (OP and low skill required) and on Skirmish (useless waste of perk)
Yeah but your suggestion to replace it with a bow perk is also kind of stupid because horse archers are very niche and somewhat useless in skirmish mode as well.
 

Sigaretovic

Squire
I feel the problem with cav in siege being just a swarm is an issue separate from cav menavlion
You claim that menavlion has little effect in siege, and I'm arguing that it does. Not entirely singel handedly, but in combination with the fact that some maps get swarmed, it definitly has a combined effect.
As I see it, there is the solution that more than one has commented about, which is to increase the price of cavalry units by favouring the use of melee and ranged units. I mean really, who the hell would take a horse to a siege?

However there is a problem (as I see it) which will not be in the eyes of the devs as they will probably find it amusing or that creates a fun. I'm talking about the animations.

Again, in Warband if you chose for example a 2h long axe being a huscarl and for whatever reason you took a horse, the swing animation offered by the axe on foot disappears as an option only allowing 1h thrusts as if it were a spear.

If you took that kind of penalty to Bannerlord I think it would cut down on the disproportionate polearm party hard usage on horseback. I would only allow the glaive khuzait (with a reduced size) as the only weapon that allows that kind of animations on horseback; as I said before.
I don't think upping the price is going to work, because farming kills with menav cav is so easy that a price difference is easily overcome.

The second suggestion i like
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
[...]
I don't think upping the price is going to work, because farming kills with menav cav is so easy that a price difference is easily overcome.

The second suggestion i like
Well, if you ask me, Siege mode would have the cavalry units blocked :lol: .

Given that this is highly unlikely, as many others have commented in the past, the option of raising the price massively in that mode for those units would perhaps be an effective bandaid to this dilemma.

That said, the second option I mention regarding the implementation of those animations is where I have put the most argumentative weight; I would choose to implement that rather than the aforementioned pricing, I mean.. as you do, I like it more.

But don't think I'm inventing wheels either, (devs) you just have to:

9p88HEI.png
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Yeah but your suggestion to replace it with a bow perk is also kind of stupid because horse archers are very niche and somewhat useless in skirmish mode as well.
Clearly, we need to return to the glory days of horse archery. All factions except Vlandia have one (Unless ... hand crossbow?) and they can actually shoot while moving.

*Edit* Also, it is here an equipment system works. In TW's efforts to provide "meaningful choices" only the 3 most popular weapon choices for a unit are supported. Which means horse archers got canned.
 
@Dejan @AVRC I demand (politely) to any TW employee to play a TDM or Siege MP for about 5-10 rounds in a row aganist empire faction (on public servers, not your 2vs2 or 10vs10 "testing matches) and listen to an opinion of that poor man about cavalry menavlions...
 

matamor

Veteran
Inappropriate behavior
LOL sad. Don't poke devs about your mangina leaks. Grow up a bit and stop crying. Adapt and overcome your play.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Yesterday I was on TDM for a good 30 minutes and I witnessed something very expected. Literally everyone few minutes there would be a toxic dude calling someone else a: menalvion mother****er or other insults. The menavlion on horseback makes people super toxic and besides that it takes 0 skill.
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
We will remove the menavlions from the empire light cav. Also cav prices are gonna be higher in tdm and siege.
 
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