Horse Archery

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99evil1angel

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I have never played the khergits before. This is due to people telling me horse archer armies dont work properly. Now Im hungarian so i figured mabye i will try out the whole horse army thing.I would just like to know how are the khergits and are horse archers any good?
 
I'll let someone else comment on singleplayer (IMO, horse archers have a variety of problems - they miss often, go into melee, hit the edge of the map..).

But you won't be disappointed if you play with Khergits in multiplayer on an open map :smile:
 
You didnt need to specify, it's singleplayer section. I just added that you might want to try some horse archery in multiplayer too, although not many like fighting against khergits since it's almost impossible to win.


If you want to see how Horse Archers act, start Custom Battle and observe.


1. They beat Vaegir infantry easily.
2. They totally annihilated vaegir archers
3. They won against Rhodok sharpshooters but with more casualties than above
4. They only killed 3 Huscarls (31 vs 31)... and were decimated.
5. Vs swadian cavalry, total defeat. They couldn't kill a single swadian.



So yea, basically horse archers fight like this: charge enemy mass. Never mind that they're archers, they'll just charge in. Then they will melee. Then they will break off and shoot a bit while making a semi-circle. Then they will enter melee and again keep swinging swords. Repeat.


They spend more time in melee than shooting.

This is what happens if you don't heavily micromanage them.
 
Horse Archery is about as much fun I know how to have legally. Horse Archers work well on large maps (ie don't fight in forests or mountains) against light to medium armored foes. They're fragile (poor to none head armor) and sometimes charge smack into large blobs with pointy sticks and die. However, they're both cheap and fast as hell on the world map so you never have to fight if you don't want to. You can read about skirmish cavalry in general on the Return of the Sarranid Cavalry thread, http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,132068.0.html. Basically, you should try to disperse the enemy before ordering a charge but when fighting Bandits of any kind (not Sea Raiders!) or archers just send the boys in and watch the chaos. Khergit Horse Archers will not win against lots of heavy cavalry, you need to have a lot of Lancers for heavy foes.

As for playing a horse archer I would suggest using this in character creation: Father Nomad, Street Urchin, Poacher, Wanderlust. Put all proficiency points into Archery until you reach 150. You want a high Str (for Powerdraw) and high Agi for Riding and Horse Archery. Get PD 3, Khergit or Bodkin arrows and a Khergit Bow asap. The reason I don't like Strong Bows or Warbows is their slow speed which absolutely matter when you ride. You can also upgrade to Strong and Masterwork Nomad or Khergit bows as you level up PD. You can equip two quivers and use a twohander or Hafted Blade as your melee weapon so you can shoot until everyone is dead. Horse archer battles take time.

Preferably you want to have a higher Ride skill than your mount needs as this affects the size of the reticule and how well you handle the horse. Some like the Courser for it's speed, I prefer Desert, Steppe and Sarranid horses for their maneuver. Of course, the Steppe Charger is a great archer platform when you have riding at 5 or above but well, it's not fast enough for my taste. The faster you ride, the larger your hit reticule will become. Slow to a trot and shoot following infantry in the face as they pursue you. This is how you gain proficiency points in the early game.

My aim when playing a HA is to never ever get hit which means moving at top speed all the time and changing direction often. There is, sadly, no penalty in Warband for using archery wearing full plate, a Vaegir War Mask and steel gauntlets. I play with open helmets or coifs, leather gloves, light mail boots and never wear armor that weigh more than 20. Just because I want to.

For firing you will need to learn the art of deflection shooting, basically it's a lot like air combat without the barrel rolls. So you need to put the arrow where the target will be when the arrow has reached it plus account for your own speed and direction. Practise. Get a high bow skill. Attend tournaments in all Khergit towns. Try to take the hard shots. If you have a higher PD than the bow requires your reticule will be stable longer.

If you have more specific questions, fire away.
 
I would recommend playing the kind of character you want to play. And if you're not really hot stuff in melee I really, really, really. I mean, Really, recommend you ride.

(And, just so I know, did you even read what I wrote above?)
 
It's like this: if you want to roleplaying you'll be on foot as a Rhodok or Nord or mounted elsewhere.


But keep in mind this: when the player is horse archer, that's like super-easy instant-win gameplay style. It's a LOT different from playing as a foot archer. Playing on foot is usually done for challenge (or roleplaying) and isn't recommended to starters.

You might want to try horse archery before you get bored of it. Horses make me dizzy, and I prefer ground :wink:
 
99evil1angel said:
So would you guys recommend making a foot archer for the sarranids as opposed to a horse archer for the khergits

Almost. He explained how to have fun as a horse archer.

Speaking of fun, isn't a computer game about having fun by discovering what its creators have in store for you, dare I say, experimenting?

If so, why don't you simply try those blasted Khergits out already?
 
Kettle Black said:
For firing you will need to learn the art of deflection shooting, basically it's a lot like air combat without the barrel rolls. So you need to put the arrow where the target will be when the arrow has reached it plus account for your own speed and direction. Practise. Get a high bow skill. Attend tournaments in all Khergit towns. Try to take the hard shots. If you have a higher PD than the bow requires your reticule will be stable longer.

If you have more specific questions, fire away.

This is probably the most important part of horse archery, learning how to lead your targets. I absolutely love how after enough practice you can pull off the most ridiculous shots off from a distance. Once you master the deflection shooting learn some more advanced attack strategies that require more timing and quick thinking.

1.) Trample Shot - If you need to attack someone who is being a turtle with his shield and cannot necessarily just ride right around him, aim you reticule right next to your horse's head aiming down. Charge forward and right before you hit him let the arrow go, it should pass through the shield as he gets knocked and generally if you did it right it would be a headshot.

2.) Jump Shots - Anytime you need to keep going forward or your horse's maneuvering is not very good jumping will become a very big part of your ability as a horse archer. You must keep an eye on all obstacles in your planned path and know when to jump over them. This includes the spontaneous riderless horse that will eventually ALWAYS come out of no where, and you need to ready to jump over them. Along with this, if you can master the jump part, the shooting while jumping becomes easy. The more advanced part of the jump shot is when you jump over a person/horse and shoot straight down into their head. This is hard to do, but very satisfying and it'll take some timing practice.

3.) Charge shots - this is rather straight forward, but once you have a powerful enough bow and power draw, if you're going to ram into another horseman, shoot their horse in the head and kill it before you clash.

There's more, but they aren't really moves as much as they are just technical details. Once you learn how to lead your targets using throwing weapons on horse back becomes even more satisfying than horse archery itself. There is nothing better than being able to chuck a throwing axe at a fast moving target that is moving erratically and still being able to hit them. Plus, its just fun as hell to pull off charge shots like that.

----


Anyways, just because you want to be a horse archer doesn't mean you have to play as khergits.
 
Not to beat a dead steppe horse, but I just wanted to point out that there's no rule saying you HAVE to use Khergit horse archers as a Khergit. Yeah, from a pure powergamer perspective, Khergit hordes are bollocks in singleplayer. They're annoying (especially if YOU have to fight THEM), but the horse archers are horrifically stupid and act more like lancers than archers, charging into enemy heavy cavalry and getting themselves annihilated. However, you could always simply concentrate on training Khergit lancers (who aren't half bad in a scrap) and foreign soldiers, or tactical order the horse archers to dismount or hold position and fire away. That defeats the mobility purpose of cavalry archers, but will keep them from making kamikaze runs.

At any rate, playing AS a horse archer is immensely fun, and my current character- while not strictly a horse archer- has probably killed more enemies with his bow than any other weapon.
 
You can also try the Custom Commander mod:

#Cavalry will choose the right weapons from weapons which they equipped(not from their hole inventory).When they are on horses, they will prefer to use lances and switch to other weapons when they are on foot.
# Horse archers won't switch weapons to melee weapons before they run out of their ammo.
 
Horse archery is fun and challenging, but leading khergit horse archers is a pain in the ... backside. It requires a lot of skills (power draw, horse archery, riding, weapon master, and points spent of archery) though, so you will lack some points on leader/personal skills like prisoner management, leadership or inventory management).

But the game simulates pretty well what you can do on a horse with a bow so it well worth trying. Once mastered it will give you great fun shooting those trickshots. Your high archery will help during sieges too. And your army of horse archers is a good defending force, especially if you dig yourself in into a castle that is besieged with a siege tower and you will have time to shoot them till they get close.

Amúgy meg minden magyartól elvárható, hogy legalább erős közepes legyen ebben a fegyvernemben! :smile: Gyerünk katona, a véres kardot már körbehordozták!
 
As has been said in this thread, HA is the most fun you could have playing this game in SP. Ofcourse having ALL Heavy Cav Sarranid/Swads, or a bunch of Huscarls can be fun. But HA and 'playing the role' (wearing only leather armor for example) can really be a blast, especially when you win and all that jazz. Besides [sarcasm] ladies prefer the leather in VWARBANDS
 
Yoshi Murasaki said:
You didnt need to specify, it's singleplayer section. I just added that you might want to try some horse archery in multiplayer too, although not many like fighting against khergits since it's almost impossible to win.


If you want to see how Horse Archers act, start Custom Battle and observe.


1. They beat Vaegir infantry easily.
2. They totally annihilated vaegir archers
3. They won against Rhodok sharpshooters but with more casualties than above
4. They only killed 3 Huscarls (31 vs 31)... and were decimated.
5. Vs swadian cavalry, total defeat. They couldn't kill a single swadian.



So yea, basically horse archers fight like this: charge enemy mass. Never mind that they're archers, they'll just charge in. Then they will melee. Then they will break off and shoot a bit while making a semi-circle. Then they will enter melee and again keep swinging swords. Repeat.


They spend more time in melee than shooting.

This is what happens if you don't heavily micromanage them.

I remember a multiplayer match with Khergits versus Swadians (team deathmatch), we maked them pincushion and won.
 
Outlawed said:
As has been said in this thread, HA is the most fun you could have playing this game in SP.

Fun is subjective.

But I guess if to you fun equals winning regardless of how it's done, then yea, HA is fun. I suggest adding some more fun: character export, then giving yourself 500 Strength and all max stats. Then character import. Just watch out, the fun factor will increase so much that your heart might fail you :wink:



(Meanwhile.. I'll be fighting on foot with max difficulty settings.)
 
You're such a silly little boy Yoshi, always frantically clambering for some moral high ground (and on foot as well). You're the one doing the exporting/importing and maxing stats (for "testing", yeah right) so please don't brag about how you play on max settings - you're not fooling anyone except possibly yourself and the rest of us honestly don't care. Horse Archery as such has nothing to do with how easy or hard the game is and the exclusive cost of being good at it in combat is 15-18 skill points. Since you claim that you only need 2 Athletics for a foot soldier I guess that would mean you only need half the skill points to be just as good. The game can be super-easy with any kind of character so don't pretend that HA is a lesser choice. Do you even know how many arrows it takes to kill a Huscarl, even  assuming you manage to bypass that big-ass shield?
If you don't want to play as a HA or aren't interested in discussions on the subject, you could just stay the **** out of the thread.
 
Kettle Black said:
You're such a silly little boy Yoshi, always frantically clambering for some moral high ground (and on foot as well). You're the one doing the exporting/importing and maxing stats (for "testing", yeah right) so please don't brag about how you play on max settings - you're not fooling anyone except possibly yourself and the rest of us honestly don't care. Horse Archery as such has nothing to do with how easy or hard the game is and the exclusive cost of being good at it in combat is 15-18 skill points. Since you claim that you only need 2 Athletics for a foot soldier I guess that would mean you only need half the skill points to be just as good. The game can be super-easy with any kind of character so don't pretend that HA is a lesser choice. Do you even know how many arrows it takes to kill a Huscarl, even  assuming you manage to bypass that big-ass shield?
If you don't want to play as a HA or aren't interested in discussions on the subject, you could just stay the **** out of the thread.

This. :wink:
 
Kettle Black said:
Horse Archery as such has nothing to do with how easy or hard the game is

Of course not, everyone knows that all play options are equal because we live in pink communist world where all men are created equal, everything is of equal value - which is all good thing because you don't need to use brain to differentiate. This results in a brain dying because it's of no use anymore..

Since you claim that you only need 2 Athletics for a foot soldier

What? A single point in Athletics is a waste. I play with zero Athletics.

Outlawed said:

Don't lose the pocket Bible, you won't know how to live


I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
-  Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
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