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Hmmm, I really really want to target troops at other troop groups, I want to feel in COMMAND, I hate the AI

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Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Previously I had agreed with @Callum in another thread ( can't find it) that to would be best if the AI was good enough to not have to be micro'd by the player and know what target it should be shooting. Well, I a take it back. I really really want to order attacks on groups of enemies! I like telling to troops to do things and being in charge. It's really satisfying
It's really frustrating to position and face troops and interfere and kite enemies and "hope" my troops do thier job, I want to ORDER an ATTACK on say enemy HA, no ifs ands or butts, ignore all other units in the distant horizon and focus down the threat! Then the Cav, the Archers because I say so and I'm the boss! I don't understand how TW doesn't feel it's a problem in thier tests watch thier archers shoot at harmless infantry blobs while themselves being shot to death by enemy archers? How can you NOT want a command to say "Shoot the ****ing archers!" With HA too, all range will happily shoot at infantry formations a million miles away and not HA until they are too close and let them have 1st strike! You have to really bend over backwards to position ranged (HA and foot) so that the HA are right in front of them with no other units for them to shoot, if you want them to actually focus the HA down (they still suck at moving targets but still). I'm am strait up rejecting "we don't want players to have to micro" because it's way more work to try to achieve the desired effect already then just a simple "Kill this" command".

And I know from both playing with the RTS command mod and a certain other game I won't name that targeting attacks on enemy groups FEELS REALLY GOOD! It's really satisfying!
Anyway, this has been suggested many time forever, so this is just a conversational topic about it!
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Taleworlds: Let friendly AI do everything for you... ****tily.
Normie devs: Let the player choose, even if we have the best AI.
Ananda (unrelated): I will exploit every AI flaw and then wonder why the AI hates me.
I'm am strait up rejecting "we don't want players to have to micro" because it's way more work to try to achieve the desired effect already then just a simple "Kill this" command".
This is a good summary of everything about this topic.
And I know from both playing with the RTS command mod and a certain other game I won't name that targeting attacks on enemy groups FEELS REALLY GOOD! It's really satisfying!
We know it's Girls' Civilization for the upskirt action and it's disgusting. Hopefully you'll register yourself as a sex offender.
Anyway, this has been suggested many time forever, so this is just a conversational topic about it!
Let's have another look at the best thread on this topic then:

Why "Focus Fire" Should be a top priority and implemented immediately.

 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
TMTNw.jpg


As I said 15 minues ago here,
Forcing bracing, forcing focused fire/attack enemy unit and forcing weapon usage switch; three points in my opinion of pressing implementation.

[...]

Let's have another look at the best thread on this topic then:

Why "Focus Fire" Should be a top priority and implemented immediately.

+ Who should decide which weapon the bots use, the player or the AI?
 

Kreu2009

Sergeant
I don't only want to be able to order what to shot at, i also want to be able to order what to charge at. I often lose several riders because they decided to run into the massive enemy infantry formation, instead of the weak enemy cavalry, or the back of their archers.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I venture to guess that the lack of such additions (focus fire, force switch weapon usage, and so on) are not added (to the vision) due to the ballast that it entails of parallel development of the console port; unfortunately to the detriment of the PC experience. The delay to Q2 2022 is nothing more than a side effect...

Biting off more than you can chew

giphy.gif
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
why not both?
Because it is assumed to must be so. It makes my blood boil when I think that Conqueror's Blade, a ****ing free to play game, has all that implemented.

An example with the latest implementation, spear brace.

The Ai is autonomous and automatically deploys the brace action for spear-equipped agents upon being charged by cavalry; ok fine. While there is room for improvement, an autonomous AI and a user-controlled command that forces a bracing action at the moment the user wishes would be ideal.

Same for focus fire/atack enemy group, switch weapon command and other light micromanagin tools that would work wonders if implemented.

Autonomous AI? no doubt; but not at the expense of lack of user control.
 
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Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
Again, my suggestion tries to bring more control to the player and smarter AI simultaneously.
With the exception of "focus fire", a sort of "weapon switch" command would be possible by changing classes.
"Spear bracing" would be possible for any unit with a long spear that was in the Pikeman class.
Just like any pikeman would not use the "spear bracing" when leaving the Pikeman class.


@Callum
 
Youre absolutely right, the game wants you to be a general, commanding your troops while simultaneously be a soldier. It ends up doing both, badly. Either be a commandor and control your troops or be a soldier and hope for the best.
 

KingEroc1st

Veteran
Either be a commandor and control your troops or be a soldier and hope for the best.
that should be the choice of the player and an act of balance to be managed

personally i think the RTS mod does a great job, the pause function helps me work around the wonky controls in the game

but definitely would love more command
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
We know it's Girls' Civilization for the upskirt action and it's disgusting. Hopefully you'll register yourself as a sex offender.
I was talking about AOE4, but don't worry I've been a card holder since the mid 90s
3aXH5.png

Youre absolutely right, the game wants you to be a general, commanding your troops while simultaneously be a soldier. It ends up doing both, badly. Either be a commandor and control your troops or be a soldier and hope for the best.
I can pound out the commands while killing bots all day, the problem is the commands are missing some important stuff (like topic) and the AI does poor job in general.
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
I was talking about AOE4, but don't worry I've been a card holder since the mid 90s
3aXH5.png
Joking aside, it boggles the mind if some failed anime game can do it, why can't Mount and Blade?
These kinds of features get added during EA as devs, emerging from their "vision"/groupthink cocoon, realize how players want to play the game.
I can pound out the commands while killing bots all day, the problem is the commands are missing some important stuff (like topic) and the AI does poor job in general.
The larger the battle size and the battle, the lesser the player impact. So, the "best" way to play Mount and Blade is to be a commander until all the maneuvering is done and the battle is joined and then personally help your guys who have the hardest task.
Conversely, if you only want to be soldier (and sadly many FPS people do), you have to be able to turn over command to a capable AI (another area that needs work).
Edit: before you say it, exploits where you Rambo the whole enemy force should not be possible and need dev attention too.
 
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Rush09

Regular
I think a cool feature that would enable this could be a Battle Plan phase before each battle, where you would tell each captain of each formation in your party what their main objectives should be, for example:
Dude leading Archers > Prioritize Cav, then Archers
Dude leading Cav > Charge Archers
etc etc

Once you delegated each formation in battle, they would follow the battle plan. Once, for example, the Cav had dealt with the enemy archers they would go back to the current AI they have now.
Just a thought.
 

Shaxx

Squire
Because it is assumed to must be so. It makes my blood boil when I think that Conqueror's Blade, a ****ing free to play game, has all that implemented.
I recall hearing that in medieval japan road building was actively discouraged to make it harder for peasants to travel to other villages, where one might see that the local lord treats his peasants better and want to stay there. I feel like TaleWorlds would also benefit from this system.
I think a cool feature that would enable this could be a Battle Plan phase before each battle
Maybe not exactly what are you were talking about, but this mod exists.

It is funny because the mod was released shortly after the 'Future Plans' developer update where it mentioned more pre-battle deployment customization and someone was like "yea, I bet I can whip out something like that in a couple hours" and then boom.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
A degree of AI autonomy isn't bad, specially if it's used for them to react better to changing dynamics during the battle but it never should come at the expense of direct player control.

I want to be the commander and well.. command my troops! if i wanted the AI do decide i can fight in another lord's army or delegate divisions to AI sergeants, control in games is fun, otherwise i would just watch a movie or something.

I want to tell my troops which weapon type to use, to brace spears or not, which enemy division to attack and so on, TW can keep working 10+ years in their AI and it still won't be half as smart as any human player being able to quickly analyse things and send commands to his troops as situations change in the battle.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
before you say it, exploits where you Rambo the whole enemy force should not be possible and need dev attention too.
For sure. It's silly sometimes the AI will just let you shoot all their Cav from a side, then even send more Cav from the other side formation other to replace and you can just keep killing them. Sure, sometimes this doesn't work because thier own ranges sees you, but it's still pretty common that they just don't for some reason. Also the difficulty mounted units have at fighting you close up needs some help, I'm sure it ties into thier trouble landing hits on AI too. You have to really just ley them line up just right to hit you.
works on 1.6.2 still, of course....
wBL7e.jpg

I basically use my troops like a big gun(s) and just drop them in the best position to fire on the enemy and then wrangle any enemy Cav, then move my guns back or around and split them into 2 or 3 groups to have a cross fire and then pester the archers. If I have any cav I use them as SW to eat enemy fire. Unless I have RTS mod, then I can have more fun with the cav using the target attack, they still wiff too much but it's a big improvement.
 
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Nogand

Recruit
Currently there is a clunky way to do this for melee, simply order your units to move on top of the intended enemy. But it should be added for range as well. Perhaps F1+F4 should let you click on a formation to advance towards, and have advance for archer units be "get within 40 yards and shoot them". That way they wouldn't have to add a new button for this.
 
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