Historical heraldry
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Aule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
http://www.historyupclose.com/images/heraldry%20images/1291-circa_Wijnbergen-Armorial.jpg
Amundr
Master Knight
Awesome thanks.Aule_the_creator 说:
Some interesting things when looking at those.
The Danish coa doesn't use hearts as it does later but use fire instead.
The Swedish coa is the same as the Norwegian one besides that it is a yellow lion on blue.
Perhaps this one looks more like the one used for norway, but i dont think it looks as good.
Skandinav
Grandmaster Knight
Very interesting, I wouldn't read as much into the Danish coat of arms though ( how do you see the flames btw, do you use a higher res version than I do ? ), as hearts have been used as early as King Canute IV ( 1194 ), but I would like to know why they do not feature here.
And yes, to what you said about the rampant lion, Amundr, what I meant to say was not that it wasn't rampant but only that it didn't stand as straight upwards. It is of course true that it isn't completely lying down as the front paws are never on the ground.
And yes, to what you said about the rampant lion, Amundr, what I meant to say was not that it wasn't rampant but only that it didn't stand as straight upwards. It is of course true that it isn't completely lying down as the front paws are never on the ground.
Aule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
yeah, the reason it uses flames in the modern rendering, is because it's described as using flames in the armorial, not hearts
take a look at the most recent page in the templar thread, where Kuauik has textured a swedish surcoat. I think that lion would also work for the norwegian surcoat.
take a look at the most recent page in the templar thread, where Kuauik has textured a swedish surcoat. I think that lion would also work for the norwegian surcoat.
Aule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
hmmm... yeah, the tail is a bit off, but the rest is perfect. However, the reason it looks dirty, is because it's a surcoat that hasn't been washed in a washing machine , it also actually looks like it's sewn onto the surcoat, as opposed to just being woven into the rest of the fabric, which is pretty much impossible xD
, it also actually looks like it's sewn onto the surcoat, as opposed to just being woven into the rest of the fabric, which is pretty much impossible xDAule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
stitching... it's so realistic looking it makes me cry!
Aule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
it's a yellow lion with gold thread stitching, which is why the stitches are lighter than the lion itself at least that's how it looks to me. I hope Kuauik is making the norwegian version RIGHT NOW
at least that's how it looks to me. I hope Kuauik is making the norwegian version RIGHT NOW Aule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
well, it looks like he already made a norwegian one, first page, says "norman", and it's the lion we're looking for, isn't it? although honestly, I like the surcoat of the swedes much better than the ones he used for the norwegian one
Skandinav
Grandmaster Knight
The Norwegian lion kuauik has used looks very nice but I think Amundr's is more appropriate as it is closer to the Wijnbergen Armorial.
Yes, I did notice that, I remarked on the fact that the hearts were used as early as the 12th century. So these flames are fancy, but quite peculiar.Aule_the_creator 说:yeah, the reason it uses flames in the modern rendering, is because it's described as using flames in the armorial, not hearts
Aule_the_creator
Sergeant at Arms
I know, I'm poking fun
really? I'd say that Kuauik's looks almost exactly like the lion from the wijnbergen armorial... tail and all.
really? I'd say that Kuauik's looks almost exactly like the lion from the wijnbergen armorial... tail and all.
Skandinav
Grandmaster Knight
The composition is the same, I agree, but Amundr's version still more closely resembles the Armorial Wijnbergen's curvaceous style, I think, where kuauik's is more angular and looks more like the one from the 20th century. If I should chose after personal taste I would go for kuauik's though ( because I'm from that century myself I guess ), but I think the other one would better capture the style of the period.
Would be great with a high resolution picture of the original Armorial Wijnbergen, but as far as I can see Amundr did a very good job. But isn't the tongue red in the original, btw ?
Amundr
Master Knight
Hard to tell but yeah i dont see a yellow tongue so either no tongue or a red tongue that is hard to see.Skandinav 说:
It doesnt seem to have the mane spikes either so might ditch those and also make the lion itself alittle more "beefier".
I also like the modern versions alot more than the more rounded ones, ie the head of the first lion i posted.
Perhaps we should sacrifice historical accuracy on the altar of coolness.
Skandinav
Grandmaster Knight
Perhaps. Historical accuracy does have coolness though, but if we did it might also be more consistent with the coat of arms of the other factions - at least until we or someone else dug up correct ones for them aswell. But it is also much easier that way, certainly, as long as we cannot just copy and paste the original ones.
