Historical Discussion

Dansk viking

Master Knight
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So, looking at some of Lindybeige's old videos, I stumble upon the one about spear usage. Lindybeige argues that the underarm spear would have been predominant - almost ruling out the overarm completely.

Now, from that I came across this video arguing that the overarm spear might be the only possibility in a tight formation (see for example the Bayeux Tapestry).

What do you guys think?

Currently Víkingr has underarm spear exclusively, both high and low. I wonder whether a third option might be possible. I'm thinking here mostly of the Shieldwall Event where it is evident that spears cannot be used in the front row; I wonder if an extra overarm mode might change that...
 

fysaga

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Dansk viking said:
So, looking at some of Lindybeige's old videos, I stumble upon the one about spear usage. Lindybeige argues that the underarm spear would have been predominant - almost ruling out the overarm completely.

Now, from that I came across this video arguing that the overarm spear might be the only possibility in a tight formation (see for example the Bayeux Tapestry).

What do you guys think?

Currently Víkingr has underarm spear exclusively, both high and low. I wonder whether a third option might be possible. I'm thinking here mostly of the Shieldwall Event where it is evident that spears cannot be used in the front row; I wonder if an extra overarm mode might change that...
I cannot watch the videos right now, but I have seen the one from Schola before. He seems far more informed than lindy who has been wrong on some subjects by now, so I would place more trust into Matt. On the subject of the animation, do we even have the capabilities to change this anymore ?
 

hrotha

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As much as I love Lindybeige, I tend to trust Matt Easton a lot more, largely because Lindybeige likes to think out loud basically so very often he's not talking about things he has direct experience with (Lloyd's method is valuable, it opens up new discussions and what not, but once they've been opened I find Matt's opinion usually carries more weight).

Lindybeige's point is fair: all other considerations aside, an underarm grip would seem to be more effective, since it gives you more reach and you can more easily target all parts of your enemy's body. But you can't leave out all those other considerations, after all. I don't think the artistic representations should be dismissed so easily, either.

Now, as for Víkingr... M&B spears bear so little resemblance to their real-world counterparts that I'm not sure anything could be done. But having the ability to change your grip and shorten your reach for close combat should come in handy and translate well enough into game mechanics, I guess.
 

Dansk viking

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Well, yes. I was talking theoretically - I doubt it'll happen, but if we did have an experienced modder on the case, perhaps one could use the same key as the horsemen "p", to change spear mode and, indeed, shorten the reach for close combat.

I wonder whether the hoplite fighting style (which I'd most definitely assume used overarm spear-thrusts in close quarters) was used in a Northern European shieldwall within our time-frame.
 

Éadric

Knight at Arms
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Just one of many contemporary examples:



And this reminds me of something that's been bothering me for a long time: the distinction in Víkingr between throwing spears and thrusting spears. There should only be spears of different lengths. Ideal would be to have your spear overarm (with the thumb inside, not outside like in Víkingr), with left mouse button to thrust and (say) shift + left mouse button to throw. If the spear's too long for proper throwing, and covers but a pitiful distance, that's on you. It would also mean you have to make sure you don't have a mate right behind you when you throw, lest you poke him with the butt of your spear.

But I'm afraid this thing I'm proposing is not feasible with M&B.
 

Scuba Steve

Master Knight
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If there's going to be a change to spear usage, is it possible to use Sahran's OSP code for spears? He made it so that overarm and underarm are usable without having to switch weapon modes, meaning that you effectively have an up attack which is overarm, and a down attack which is underarm. Makes spears much more viable, since at least the person who you're fighting against at least has to keep in mind of being able to block both directions if their shield breaks, instead of being able to block indefinitely by just holding down block.

At least then using "X" you could then perhaps shorten the grip of the spear, without having to resort to any other methods.
 

Aethel

Sergeant at Arms
M&B
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How accurate or authentic would a band of Norman mercenaries be, in the later part of Vikingr's timeframe?
How easily could it fit into Vikingr's "world" of clans?

ThegnAnsgar and I have been talking about the possibility of a new Norman clan based around this concept, inspired by the Norman bands that fought in Spain, Italy, Greece, and those that most definitely returned home for William's 1066 invasion.

We were thinking of building upon these concepts:
- Lots of "second sons" as in lesser sons of Norman nobles who have nothing to inherit, and is probably one of the reasons so many Norman knights went abroad to Italy and such. This is extremely similar to the theory about how the Scandinavians clans were essentially running out of room, either literally or figuratively, for all their sons, and so some became vikingr.
- "Band of brothers"; To quote Ansgar, "Those who don't serve to inherit things, those who have been disinherited by their family and are essentially 'nobodies', perhaps even those on the run or exiled and looking for a new life and therefore a new name as well." We fight together, we stick together, etc.

We particularly like the idea as it contrasts with previous Norman clans, which were all feudal organizations.
 

HannesFury

Sergeant Knight
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"Comparing Old Danish to Old English and Old Saxon"

Brief and easy to read overview/comparison of common words. Also includes an audio excerpt of Danish, with more to explore should you be willing:

https://babblelingua.com/comparing-old-danish-old-english-old-saxon/
 

Painmace

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Hey, didnt feel lile reading through 44 pages.. sorry?

I was wondering if there are any ”standardized”/accepted list of ranks for Vinkings?
 

RagnarGerman

Sergeant Knight
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Painmace said:
Hey, didnt feel lile reading through 44 pages.. sorry?

I was wondering if there are any ”standardized”/accepted list of ranks for Vinkings?
I don't think so. Do you attend to convert your regiment's/clan's ranks for Vikingr into something fitting for the period?
 

Painmace

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RagnarGerman said:
Painmace said:
Hey, didnt feel lile reading through 44 pages.. sorry?

I was wondering if there are any ”standardized”/accepted list of ranks for Vinkings?
I don't think so. Do you attend to convert your regiment's/clan's ranks for Vikingr into something fitting for the period?
Yes, we are hosting a Saturday mod event (new mod each week) this week (28th) we are doing Vikingr

Iv managed to formalize something :smile: