Historical Discussion

Rath0s

Baron
M&BWBNW
Best answers
0
As the title says, come here to discuss history within this period.

You can also point out historical accuracies in the mod here as well.
 
Best answers
0
Sorry, I created a theme and did not notice the existence of this!

Excuse me, but I do not speak English, and I write you this letter because of an online translator!
I could not understand see the following:
1) "Vikingr": Why in the singular and not plural, given the fact that the two factions (Saxons and Normans) you have named in the plural?
http://sites.google.com/site/mikillvotnumum/home/old-norse-lang
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/norol-8-X.html#L78
"Vikingr" is in the singular (as Saxon, Norman), but "Vikingar" is in the plural, as Saxons and Normans! Excuse me, but if you already have a predominant number of names that stand in the plural, then the rest correctly and beautifully execute appropriately well plural! Or, to draw up all the names in the singular!
2) "Kievan Rus": This name is purely scientific, but not historic at all! In the annals of no name "Kievan Rus", but there is a name of "Russian land", "RUS", "Russian principality, with its capital in Kiev (which is why scientists gave the name of Russia in this period of time as the Kievan Rus, as the later metropolitan center moves in Moscow)! I recommend that you name "Rus", as it stands in history and the people (as the Saxons, Danes, French) and the State itself of this nation (as the Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons, the Danish kingdom). The name "Russian principalities is not recommended, because in the Viking Age, Russ has not been legally formalized between the princes, as the principality (this happened when the descendants of Prince Vladimir Monomakh), but was in the form of various tribes with their princes, among whom the Kiev prince Kiev city itself had a special relationship!
3) "Rus Archer": why the English name of Russian warrior? you have the other faction are the original names of national soldiers, and this fraction english!? In Russian, this class will be a warrior "Strelec"!
http://www.spec-naz.org/forum/index.php/topic/9763-%25D0%25B8%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8%25D1%258F-%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B8%25D1%2582%25D0%25B8%25D1%258F-%25D1%2582%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BA%25D1%2582%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B8-%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D1%2583%25D0%25B6%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%258F-%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B1%25D1%2583%25D1%2587%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%258F/
  ("Таких мастеров именовали «лучниками». Слово «лучник» утвердилось в нашей литературе как обозначение стрелка, но это неверно: того называли «стрельцом».")
4) "Druzhina": !? in Russian this word means a band consisting of many warriors! as a soldier of this unit is called correctly "Druzhinnik"
5) "Boyar Son": this term appears in Russia only in the 13 century as the earliest! In the Viking Age is the boyars as a class of warriors and nobles in the prince.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%8F%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5
("Впервые этот термин упоминается под 1259 годом в Великом Новгороде.") Write it right the warrior as "Boyarin"!
6) Why does not the faction of Russia fourth-class warrior, the leader, as it is with other factions? It looks very ugly and not good! Please create this class leader and call him "Knyaz"!
7) "Chieftain": !? Excuse me, but is that a Old Scandinavian word? No!
http://norse.ulver.com/dct/zoega/index.html
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/norol-0-X.html
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norr%C3%B8nt_(spr%C3%A5k)
I suggest you to choose from: a) Hovding, or b) Konungr! http://norse.ulver.com/dct/zoega/k.html ("konungr")

8 ) "Hersir": !? Dear Rathos, is striking when the picture in which you have in the game hersirs on the battlefield as much as much as regular soldiers and archers? No, it's wrong and not good! Hersir is a warrior aristocracy, and it was below the Jarl, but above Hovdinga, and had under his command their retainers! bring you a snippet of text Sagas in English: it shows excellent Hersira position as the leader of the nobles and commanders:
http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/harfager.html
(6. KING HARALD S LAWS FOR LAND PROPERTY. "Each earl had under him four or more herses, each of whom had an estate of twenty marks yearly income bestowed on him and was bound to support twenty men-at-arms, and the earl sixty men, at their own expenses.")
http://www.heimskringla.no/wiki/Haralds_saga_hins_h%C3%A1rfagra
(6. Landsréttr Haralds konungs. "Jarl hverr skyldi hafa undir sér 4 hersa eða fleiri, ok skyldi hverr þeirra hafa 20 marka veizlu. Jarl hverr skyldi fá konungi í her 60 hermanna af sínum einum kostnaði, en hersir hverr 20 menn.") +
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herse_%28Wikinger%29
 
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%80
  +but the text-passage Scandinavian Russian historian and archaeologist Gleb Lebedev in his book "The Age of the Vikings in Northern Europe and Russia":
("По крайней мере, с херада можно проследить и позиции племенной аристократии, «предводителей» — (hófðingi), из числа которых выдвигался для племенного ополчения воевода (hersir), а для области правитель (jarl) или даже король (konungr).")
All of these passages speak in favor of what Hersir is a warrior-chief, the commander of the elite.
I suggest you put in its place: a) Hirdmann (Hirdmadr), b) Lidmann, c) Holdr, d) Drengr, e) Huskarl!
9) "Bueskytter": This is the same in modern Norwegian?
http://norse.ulver.com/dct/zoega/b.html
(bog-limir, m. pl. ‘curved limbs’, arms and legs; maðr, m. bowman, archer). I suggest you replace your version on my "Bogmadr"!
http://yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=Bogmadr&lr=11155
10) Russian shields: In Russia was the most common Kite Shield
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%89%D0%B8%D1%82
similar to those depicted in this image:
http://foto.totalwars.ru/foto/images/265593BYZANTINE%20SHIELD%20LAYOUT1a.jpg
  but the Christian symbols to put on billboards Russian soldiers should not! Common symbol in the era of the Vikings were: animals (bear, lion, falcon), sun (especially yellow sun on a red field), the Slavic characters
http://slavlib.ru/viewpage.php?page_id=10
and symbols Rurik
http://chernov-trezin.narod.ru/GerbRurika.htm
(Look at the symbols that are listed in the genealogical table named "НОВЕЙШАЯ ГЕНЕАЛОГИЯ ЗНАКОВ РЮРИКОВИЧЕЙ IX–XI ВЕКОВ, любезно присланная мне С. В. Белецким 1 сентября 2008 года")

The rest can be write later, as I myself am trying first to find out more (and later learn), and write, if something is beyond my comprehension or weird!
 

Jock

Count
M&BWBWF&SNW
Best answers
0
Sorry, a bit offtopic, but if you need someone to make some new Russian shouts, I have a guy for that, he has some experience in that kind too. He's Russian and he has a Russian accent.
 

Turanien

King of Scotland said:
Sorry, a bit offtopic, but if you need someone to make some new Russian shouts, I have a guy for that, he has some experience in that kind too. He's Russian and he has a Russian accent.
:eek: :shock:!
 

Moeckerkalfie

King of Scotland said:
Turanien said:
King of Scotland said:
The current Russian voices sound a bit fake, no offence.
Well, they are directly from Native!  :lol: Get in touch with Rathos, I'm sure he would appreciate your offer.
Okay, I'll talk to him... later... Simpsons time now :smile:
Ah if you really record anything, could you make the taunts a little more aggressive than they are at the moment?
I remember how I once charged into an overwhelming enemy force in the ice-map, and was forced to the brink of the ice sheet we were fighting on. When I slowly started sliding into the water I wanted to hurl a last heroic insult at my enemies, but instead they saw an obviously confused warrior slip into icy doom muttering a last "Outforra stroull arrwe?"  :grin:

And thrashing someone to death while hailing their brotherhood of war is a little unsatisfying as well...
 

Gule

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
Best answers
0
Эрих фон Манштейн said:
See questions above. ^^


1. The reason for this is because we haven't chosen an historical name for the Vikingr faction, "Vikingr" as a faction name is a modern creation, "The Vikingr" being an alternative way of referring to the "The Vikings". As you point out, it is actually a quite weird way of saying it, because what it actually means is "The Viking". The word "Viking" of course also has a very debated origin, as most contemporary sources mention it as a regular mans name, as it still is in modern Scandinavia. But this is a discussion for an other time and place.

2. This is (as you mentioned) the same issue as with the previous question and we have therefore decided to use a modern name.

3-5. These names are just temporary, since we are Scandinavians and none of us speak Russian, we did the best we could for the time being. Since release we have received tips from Russian native speakers and the names will be corrected.   

6. There is such a class planned, the mod is however still in "beta" and everything is naturally not finished yet.

7. We are aware of this. The chieftain class was put in the game a long time ago when we were just making the mod for our own clans entertainment, it has simply not been given a proper name yet.

8. Thank you for pointing that out. However, there is of course again the problem with a lack of reliable contemporary sources when it comes to Viking age warrior classes.

9. Yes that is a modern Norwegian word.

10. The Rus shields are just there temporary, since the proper Rus shields haven't been created yet. But thank you for providing inspirational images and facts.

That should answer all of your questions, thank you for the feedback and feel free to ask if something feels strange. Keep in mind though that the mod isn't finished yet, and there's many changes to come.

Please keep a nicer tone though, you felt a bit aggressive in your post, but that might be the translators fault.
 

Braxton

Sergeant
Best answers
0
I think that the viking bows should atleast as tall as the archer, as they did use longbows at that time already.





Sources:
http://www.williamrshort.com/vik_wpn/index.html
http://www.archery-interchange.net/f16/english-longbow-vs-viking-longbow-6509/
http://www.ballg.de/englisch/eigenerbogen.html
And a whole bunch of viking groups in denmark where I have seen it too.
And mentioned here too: http://www.ribevikingecenter.dk/Default.aspx?ID=1232
 

FrisianDude

Archduke
M&BWB
Best answers
0
Gule said:
10. The Rus shields are just there temporary, since the proper Rus shields haven't been created yet. But thank you for providing inspirational images and facts.
This sounds promising. :3
 
Best answers
0
Braxton said:
I think that the viking bows should atleast as tall as the archer, as they did use longbows at that time already.





Sources:
http://www.williamrshort.com/vik_wpn/index.html
http://www.archery-interchange.net/f16/english-longbow-vs-viking-longbow-6509/
http://www.ballg.de/englisch/eigenerbogen.html
And a whole bunch of viking groups in denmark where I have seen it too.
And mentioned here too: http://www.ribevikingecenter.dk/Default.aspx?ID=1232
Totally agree my friend, but i allready posted that, but no answer :wink:

please Rathos and the team, please give the vikings the longbow.. :smile:
 
Best answers
0
Gule said:
That should answer all of your questions, thank you for the feedback and feel free to ask if something feels strange. Keep in mind though that the mod isn't finished yet, and there's many changes to come.

Please keep a nicer tone though, you felt a bit aggressive in your post, but that might be the translators fault.
Dear Gule, thank you very much for your answers!
Please excuse my tone, because I wrote everything using a translator, but in favor of my courtesy call saying the phrase "distinguished," "please" and all that! However, I'm sorry, please, for distinctly puzzled!

I really liked your mod, and I was interested to help in every way on the history, because I have a similar experience under his other nicknames in the Russian forum http://rusmnb.ru/forum/ (known by the nicknames "VIKING", "UFO", "BuKuHr")! Thank you very much for providing this opportunity! Thank you very much for your hard work! Guys, good luck in his work on a modification
It is clear that the choice of the designation and mapping for you, but my goal is to provide historical information I'm interested in the details, so something for yourself to understand more about why the game or that what I was interested or surprised!

I'm trying to see more information on the attire of Russian warriors of the Viking Age (I have some doubts about the attire of soldiers Russia! I could be wrong, but I think that this dress ages 12-13!? I do not mean all the apparel in general, but about helmets and chain mail, some).

Then let me, please continue:
11) "Symbols of Russia": I understand your answer regarding the registration of Russia faction, but just in case, I note that the modern symbol of Ukraine is not very good at showing the historical symbol of Rurik! This can be seen on the site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 Here's what he looked like Prince Yaroslav the Wise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_I_the_Wise and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yarthewise.png ! In addition, there is the view of historians, archaeologists that the symbol is displayed Rurik trident falcon http://chernov-trezin.narod.ru/GerbRurika.htm (Look at the symbols that are listed in the genealogical table named "НОВЕЙШАЯ ГЕНЕАЛОГИЯ ЗНАКОВ РЮРИКОВИЧЕЙ IX–XI ВЕКОВ, любезно присланная мне С. В. Белецким 1 сентября 2008 года") In addition, the table shows a very different historical versions of the map symbol of Rurik, and use a modern symbol on the background data will not be very correct!

Excuse me, but you could say in a personal message from the Russian community who helps you? (I, too, from the Russian community this games MnB, and I'm just wondering who of our communication with you)

Yours sincerely, BuKuHr!
 

Braxton

Sergeant
Best answers
0
I moved my stuff here apparently no one is paying attention, This is why no one used this thread.