Higher tier units should die less in Autocalc Simulated Battles

[five bucks]

Autocalc, Autoresolve, Simulated Battle, whatever you want to call it - it exists so you can skip a boring battle, one which you know you will win easily with no casualties if you actually played it.

But players do not want to use it because their elite, highest level troops can die completely at random, even if they hugely outnumber weak enemies!

I tested autocalc with an army of 50 troops, made up of 10 T1, 10 T2, 10 T3, 10 T4, and 10 T5, in the Vlandian Sergeant upgrade line. I fought 15 looters.

Mixed Army Autocalc Tests
Test 1: 1 T1 killed.
Test 2: 1 T4 killed.
Test 3: 1 T2 killed.
Test 4: 1 T5 killed.
Test 5: No losses.
Test 6: 1 T2 killed, 1 T3 wounded.
Test 7: 1 T5 wounded.
Test 8: 1 T3 wounded.
Test 9: 1 T1 killed, 1 T3 and 1 T2 wounded.
Test 10: 1 T5 killed, 1 T2 and 2 T1 wounded.

Now let's compare this to the actual battle result (played with full damage to allied troops, player not fighting, only orders given are F1+F3).

Mixed Army Battle Tests
Test 1: 1 T3 wounded.
Test 2: No losses.
Test 3: No losses.
Test 4: No losses.
Test 5: No losses.
Test 6: No losses.
Test 7: No losses.
Test 8: No losses.
Test 9: No losses.
Test 10: No losses.

What these tests appear to show is that higher-tier units barely seem any less likely to die or be wounded in autocalc. Top tier units die equally as often as bottom tier units!

I followed this up with another army of 50 troops, made up of all T5, against 15 looters. The results make the problem even more apparent.

Elite Army Autocalc Tests
Test 1: 1 T5 killed.
Test 2: 1 T5 killed.
Test 3: 2 T5 wounded.
Test 4: 1 T5 killed.
Test 5: 1 T5 wounded.
Test 6: 1 T5 wounded.
Test 7: No losses.
Test 8: 1 T5 killed, 2 T5 wounded.
Test 9: 1 T5 killed, 1 T5 wounded.
Test 10: 1 T5 killed.

And tested in real battle like before:

Elite Army Battle Tests
Test 1: No losses.
Test 2: No losses.
Test 3: No losses.
Test 4: No losses.
Test 5: No losses.
Test 6: No losses.
Test 7: No losses.
Test 8: No losses.
Test 9: No losses.
Test 10: No losses.

A fully upgraded party takes almost the same casualties as a regular one.

There needs to be more weighting for the survival of higher tier units in autocalc, and less blatant randomness.

That way, players will actually be happy to autoresolve a boring battle between their army of 50 elite troops and a handful of looters, without having to worry if they are going to be punished by losing a Banner Knight in the process.

DISCLAIMER: Autocalc should obviously be more risky than fighting the battle yourself, if the sides are somewhat closely matched. However, in a situation where you massively outnumber the enemy and have much higher tier troops too, you should not be experiencing random casualties that would never happen in the real battle.

A modder here states what they think the issue is with autoresolve: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/3453

@Duh_TaleWorlds here is the thread I took too long to finish.

PS: As a side complaint, the Tactics skill focuses too much on simulated battle autocalc/autoresolve, which means the player is discouraged from playing their battles. Ideally, a player who likes frequent real battles, and levels Tactics, should see benefits in their real battles. On the other hand, a player who does not like real battles as much, should be able to viably skip the ones they aren't interested in by using autoresolve, without being punished by the loss of their elite troops.

 

[D0c1]

as always, great post.

 

[deuxhero]

Yes. This is particularly frustrating as most of the time I use auto-calc when I have masses of expendable troops I want to train against bandits (etc.) and wouldn't even commit my experienced ones to the fight if I could avoid it.

 

[MostBlunted]

Yes, this needs to be changed. It´s so frustrating and it doesn´t make sense.

I understand that TW wants the players to fight more battles but no player really fights those battles against looters/small bandits parties with their high tier unit army. It´s just F1 > F3 > AFK for 1-2min

 

[five bucks]

Yes, this needs to be changed. It´s so frustrating and it doesn´t make sense.

I understand that TW wants the players to fight more battles but no player really fights those battles against looters/small bandits parties with their high tier unit army. It´s just F1 > F3 > AFK for 1-2min

Yep, and yet it also seems that so many systems in the game are built around the player going and grinding out these looters themselves. So we should at least be able to skip it without punishment

 

[Terco_Viejo]

100%
Good suggestion that flew under my radar until today.

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

Is this intended design?...
Other thread complaining about it

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/plz-fix-broken-simulation-19-cavalry-vs-7-looters-one-heavy-cavalry-die.441253/

Naturally higher tier units should have higher survivability, meaning that what should happen is that low tier units die and get wounded more often than higher tier units.
The only logic/justification I can imagine for the current state of autocalc is that in theory higher tier units charge first and lower tier units charge after thus equaling the chances of getting wounded or dying, plus the autocalc is meant to be more risky.

But I guess it's just bad balancing
This mod explains what's happening and fixes the problem

Better Auto Calc

You have a 50 man party, with 30 elite cataphracts and 20 recruits. You decide to fight some looters and now 5 cataphracts are dead. Yeah... this mod will help you with that.

www.nexusmods.com

What does the game do?

The way auto resolve works is (basically) like this:
- get a random troop from a party.
- get the power level of this troop, and apply it as damage to another defending troop.

The problem with native, is that the power levels of all troops are actually quite close to each other, as far as the game is concerned, there's not THAT much difference between a tier 1 and a tier 5. There is a difference, but it isn't a lot, which is why you often see high tiers be killed by low tier trash.

What does your mod do?

Better Auto Calc uses a new formula when calculating the power level of a troop. Essentially, it provides a slight buff to high tier troops, and a slight debuff to low tier troops. This buff/debuff can be modified through a config file provided by the mod, so you can change it to your hearts content. Read the Details section below to learn more.

I would like to suggest giving the player some control over the autocalc, let people choose (in theory) if higher tiers charge first, at the same time or later, the outcome would be more casualties in the lower tiers but less in the higher tiers. And devs could make it so that depending on the composition of the opposing armies there could be some situations where one option would be ideal, higher chances of victory and less losses.
Kinda similar to what the existing options in Total War, aggressive, balanced and defensive (I think these are the options).