High tier equipment as a goal for end game

[Monkey]

If you have to lock up an item it should be by skill level (like weapons, horses, etc) as it has always been done, not by exorbitant prices.

Locking gear behind skill (or level) requirements is a much better idea than just giving them absurd prices if the goal is to make top tier gear an end game thing.

 

[Askorti]

Locking gear behind skill (or level) requirements is a much better idea than just giving them absurd prices if the goal is to make top tier gear an end game thing.

Why should they be locked behind a completely arbitrary number though?
None of the weapons in Bannerlord really require any real (or at least, particularly high) level of skill to pick up and use. You might not be good at using them, but that's a completely separate thing from complete inability to equip them.

Warband only had restriction based on strength, because heavy weapons, as well as heavy bows, some characters were simply not strong enough to pick up or use. (like draw a bow or span a crossbow). And that made sense. But a skill or level requirement? That's utterly arbitrary.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

I get it because it is cool to look cool. Call it Fashionlord if you will but I often go for items that look cooler on my characters than offer the best protection but a lot of this is because as you say, having an extra 10 armor on an item does virtually nothing for you.

As for your second statement, I am 100% in agreement. What this game needs is for them to focus on the framework, offer the modding community the best, most comprehensive modding toolset available and releasing the game ASAP so that all these patches quit breaking the mods and usually the modded save games along with it. The vast majority of the deficiencies will be correct by mod once the game become stable. In fact I would as far as saying that Native is nothing more than a teaser to get someone interested in the game while the real game play starts and ends at the modded experience.

Indeed. Fashionlord! I like Sturgian armor precisely because they look nice compared to Battanian (dirty), Empire (comical), Vladian (tinpots).

Kuzaits and Aserai look ok but I generally prefer metallic looking gear.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

Haha, no, not really. The mount & blade games have never been about "dynastic simulation", it's just some random fancy that struck Taleworlds while developing Bannerlord, which they obviously failed miserably at.

I guess so. The game is kinda wishy washy at the moment.

I'd very much like it to be a dynastic simulation with RP elements. A first person Crusader Kings, if you will.

 

[Apocal]

Haha, no, not really. The mount & blade games have never been about "dynastic simulation", it's just some random fancy that struck Taleworlds while developing Bannerlord, which they obviously failed miserably at.

Why hello, Androme1.

 

[widelos]

When I finally decide to abandon my life in civilization, my cottage will be close to the flux. Flux is a priority in finding the perfect place for me. Flux in the forest is like a different, better reality. Flux is very important because thanks to it we will be able to fish right in front of the house and we will find many applications for Flux. I don't have a plan yet, but flux will be for sure!

https://odealo.com/games/trove/flux

 

[Hans 77]

I do think a good way to go would be having the highest tier armor available at a reasonable price range (reasonable being determined by credit earning factors; as a user said very fittingly, different systems in BL attribute a totally different value to 1 dinar; which is also problem needing solving), while tthe same items with a "lordly" (or equivalent) modifier could easily have 5 times the price, while only giving marginally better protection.

Hey, that sounds suspiciously like Warband's model for pricing equipment.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I don't think it can be a high price end game goal now, the best I've seen is only like 200K or so.
How much is an Imperial scale chest armor (57 body armor)? Can't remember if I've seen that yet.

Locking gear behind skill (or level) requirements is a much better idea than just giving them absurd prices if the goal is to make top tier gear an end game thing.

I they drastically revamped the character/stat system it could be, but as it is any skill or attribute requirement for armor would be laughed at and modded out. If you got attributes every level and attributes had some benefit, then maybe they could say you need 7 Vigor to equip heavy armor or high tier bow or what not. But if they used the existing system and said "you need 100 athletics to.." NO, that's not okay.

It's pretty silly that they put skill requirement on a few items but not anything else. They've also done multiple adjustments to how bows handle at low skill, but they completely ignore that you can have zero skill and use melee weapons perfectly.

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

I don't think it can be a high price end game goal now, the best I've seen is only like 200K or so.
How much is an Imperial scale chest armor (57 body armor)? Can't remember if I've seen that yet.

Im not sure if that the one I saw and was saving up to, but it was 550k

 

[Death2Tyrants]

Im not sure if that the one I saw and was saving up to, but it was 550k

Sounds like a bargain at 3.5 javelins..

 

[Shillslayer]

Why hello, Androme1.

I don't know who this "Androme1" fellow that you're refering to is, but if he (or perhaps she?) correctly stated that the generational gameplay mechanics are a complete waste of time, energy and resources and that almost literally nobody is interested in engaging with them, then he (or she) would be completely right!

Sounds like a genius to me, that one, if you ask me (I have absolutely no idea who that is though!)

I guess so. The game is kinda wishy washy at the moment.

I'd very much like it to be a dynastic simulation with RP elements. A first person Crusader Kings, if you will.

Well, if the game were to be a first person Crusader Kings that would imply heavy dynastic/generational gameplay mechanics, so I wouldn't like that. But yes, the game is wishy washy precisely because a bunch of wildly differing mechanics from different genres were put together. The original recipe (Warband) did this to a certain degree after all, but they kept it to overworld simulation and first person/third person action-oriented combat, not more. In Bannerlord, Taleworlds attempted to also incorporate dynastic/generational mechanics, which I don't think blends together well with the other mechanics.

Unique NPC's with specific backstories and personalities are a big aspect of the Mount & Blade franchise, and precisely because of that, dynastic/generational mechanics don't work well. Who cares about randomly generated NPC #321 replacing Derthert? The answer: Nobody.

 

[black_bulldog]

Why should they be locked behind a completely arbitrary number though?
None of the weapons in Bannerlord really require any real (or at least, particularly high) level of skill to pick up and use. You might not be good at using them, but that's a completely separate thing from complete inability to equip them.

Warband only had restriction based on strength, because heavy weapons, as well as heavy bows, some characters were simply not strong enough to pick up or use. (like draw a bow or span a crossbow). And that made sense. But a skill or level requirement? That's utterly arbitrary.

True but the restrictions felt organic. Why should you be able to wear the heaviest armor without good strength or ride the best horse without a decent skill in riding. It made complete sense to me and is more realistic than having to spend millions to afford the best armor and weapons.

 

[Askorti]

True but the restrictions felt organic. Why should you be able to wear the heaviest armor without good strength or ride the best horse without a decent skill in riding. It made complete sense to me and is more realistic than having to spend millions to afford the best armor and weapons.

As I said myself in the post you quote, the restrictions in Warband felt organic because they were not universal, and only applied to things where such restrictions would be appropriate.
But applying restrictions to items simply because of them being better quality makes no logical sense and is not organic in any way.

 

[Because]

Unique NPC's with specific backstories and personalities are a big aspect of the Mount & Blade franchise, and precisely because of that, dynastic/generational mechanics don't work well. Who cares about randomly generated NPC #321 replacing Derthert? The answer: Nobody.

Utterly agree with this. I just don't get the whole dynasty thing as it just makes the world blander. You take named characters with an actual hint at a personality and replace them with a randomly generated heir who has none. As the relationship is done by clan not character literally nothing changes, bar the world getting that little bit duller. All of the minor factions are also likely to die out as they have no heirs and so will also disappear from the game, unless they get lucky enough to marry. Thank goodness they left the turn off death option available, as with it on it just slowly strips the game of what little flavour and character it has.

Can you imagine a Civ game where after a generation they just replaced all of the named leaders with a generic (but functionally identical) random heir and kept this going through out the game?

Might not be a popular view, but I wish they'd just ditch the entire mechanic which adds so little to the essential game play loop and focus on polishing and expanding the other elements that do make a difference. If you aren't replacing them with random npcs who mean nothing you could spend a bit of time giving back story and meaningful traits to all of the starting lords. For example some may have hatreds to particular cultures and always back wars against them or others that believe raiding isn't honourable and so wouldn't do it, but rather than just making these randomly generated traits you could instead give the character enough background to make you feel for why they have this view. Personally I feel that they would add more character into the game instead by writing a paragraph for each starting character and making them have meaningful traits/behaviours that matched it.

 

[Shillslayer]

Utterly agree with this. I just don't get the whole dynasty thing as it just makes the world blander. You take named characters with an actual hint at a personality and replace them with a randomly generated heir who has none. As the relationship is done by clan not character literally nothing changes, bar the world getting that little bit duller. All of the minor factions are also likely to die out as they have no heirs and so will also disappear from the game, unless they get lucky enough to marry. Thank goodness they left the turn off death option available, as with it on it just slowly strips the game of what little flavour and character it has.

Can you imagine a Civ game where after a generation they just replaced all of the named leaders with a generic (but functionally identical) random heir and kept this going through out the game?

Might not be a popular view, but I wish they'd just ditch the entire mechanic which adds so little to the essential game play loop and focus on polishing and expanding the other elements that do make a difference. If you aren't replacing them with random npcs who mean nothing you could spend a bit of time giving back story and meaningful traits to all of the starting lords. For example some may have hatreds to particular cultures and always back wars against them or others that believe raiding isn't honourable and so wouldn't do it, but rather than just making these randomly generated traits you could instead give the character enough background to make you feel for why they have this view. Personally I feel that they would add more character into the game instead by writing a paragraph for each starting character and making them have meaningful traits/behaviours that matched it.

You are completely right, and I don't think it's an unpopular viewpoint at all. I've been saying for a while now that Taleworld needs to just completely ditch the entire dynastic/generational mechanics alltogether, all they do is add performance issues and bugs to the game, without adding anything positive at all. I literally can't imagine a single person actually enjoying these "mechanics", considering everything you so eloquently expressed; the dynastic/generational mechanics only make the world blander, they don't add anything.

Derthert has backstory and personality, as does Raganvad and Caladog. But none of their randomly generated replacements which we've never seen before do, they don't have any connection to the setting and the story, no relationship with the player or the other factions, nothing.

Taleworlds, seriously, just ditch the dynastic stuff already, it's only a drain on your time and resources and don't add ANYTHING to the game!

If you aren't replacing them with random npcs who mean nothing you could spend a bit of time giving back story and meaningful traits to all of the starting lords. For example some may have hatreds to particular cultures and always back wars against them or others that believe raiding isn't honourable and so wouldn't do it, but rather than just making these randomly generated traits you could instead give the character enough background to make you feel for why they have this view. Personally I feel that they would add more character into the game instead by writing a paragraph for each starting character and making them have meaningful traits/behaviours that matched it.

This is so true. All the time energy and resources that have gone into developing this worthless dynastic system that will never be fun, never be finished and never be bug-free, could've instead been spent on developing already existing characters, making them even more unique, giving them even more unique dialogue, giving them even more backstory, writing even more encyclopedia entries to add just that little bit more flavour to the world.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

I disagree with both of yall. Dynastic system is a pretty good plus for me. They need to work on it more, much more, that's all.

 

[Razeo]

Derthert has backstory and personality, as does Raganvad and Caladog. But none of their randomly generated replacements which we've never seen before do, they don't have any connection to the setting and the story, no relationship with the player or the other factions, nothing.

As much as I agree with the some folks here that the dynastic system feels bland & unimaginative, I really think it has potential. e.g. I'm currently on day 2034 on my 1.5.6 Vlandian playthrough where I was anointed as King after Derthart died & my 23 yr old son is now already a general in my army. Reason why I made it this far in this playthrough? Mods, but that's a story for another day; with my current setup simply inching beyond Battanian borders makes it extremely difficult as atleast 2-3 kingdoms declare war on you (was at war with 9 at one point. lost 3 towns & 4 castles). Point is this is simply another example of how TW could learn from what the modding community has to offer by giving the world map some life.

At its current state & the reason why I quoted the above statement is that the replacement characters have no map events to build their characters around, its just a hallow & empty shell. @TaleWorlds; Give us built in civil wars, foreign invasions, political intrigues; simply make the world outside battles alot more engaging, don't expect the modding community to do it for you.

 

[Dabos37]

I understand your concerns, perhaps it was my mistake to frame it as "end game" content. Of course, our game has much more to offer in the late game with complex systems. What I meant was not the end game per se but rather a late-mid game goal for our current weapons. Of course, there are legendary weapons armors that would make you feel like you obtained something powerful in the late game, this not to say obtaining powerful items is the core focus. It is something you do along with other challenges and rewards of the game.

As the end game gets more detailed, getting the good items will shift through to the earlier game (as the game gets more meaningful in the longer playthroughs)

It is an end game goal for some players. I mean, even if we buffed up the prices tenfold. We allow many different ways of gaining money and it wouldn't change much because the game allows you to come up with clever ways to make money(and no I am not talking about crafting exploits).

There has to be some grind to make your gameplay meaningful, mechanics with zero grind are considered exploits and cheats. Also, it is some amount of grind which feels good as a player, you're doing stuff(which is fun in its own way) and you're getting rewarded.

I personally believe the game has pacing issues regarding the amount of grind we put through for different play styles, (e.g. trading vs mercenary play style) but I can see that a lot of work being put into it and they're being addressed over time.

Regarding prices, it was not our intention to have 300K swords or 50K javelins, however, we want to make prices dynamic based on its usefulness instead of a person entering values 1-by-1. Therefore while fixing our formulae we require time to test the changes. Hopefully, with the new changes, there will be a relatively large price drop across all items, with items such as javelins will get significant price changes. I cannot give an exact date but it will be soon.

The next step will be the armors. For armors, the timetable is even more uncertain and but it is something we are working on.
As always thank you for your feedback.

Hey SadShogun, can we expect the armor prices reduction soon or will this change be released in the future? Just curious about it. Thanks.

 

[SadShogun]

Hey SadShogun, can we expect the armor prices reduction soon or will this change be released in the future? Just curious about it. Thanks.

Hi, armor price reductions are not decided yet, but we're working on a weapon price reduction (and rebalance) which requires further testing and polish and it will take some time to reach our players but I believe we have good progress on our item valuation model and general crafting experience. We're still considering some options about armor valuation, but time table is still not certain.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

.....not decided yet....further testing and polish........it will take some time..............................We're still considering................................. but time table is still not certain.

Like blinding flashes of light...?