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High tier equipment as a goal for end game
- Thread starter Dabos37
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Because
Sergeant
Woo Hoo! Hope they add lordly modifier back in too, but even if they don't this is an awesome step. As far as I am concerned as the insane value of items and the impact it had on economy and loot was one of the things I was most eager for them to fix so that is great news thank you for sharing!
TONIGHT WE FEAST!! (or once it's finally released)
BoBB
The notion that getting high end gear is a "end game" goal fills me with dread.
This game is a dynastic simulator and as such, the end game should be focused on that. Arranging marriages, alliances, trade etc. If it's to do with gear, then it'd be more along the lines of securing a good blacksmith or even establishing good workshops to produce said gear.
But what we have so far, is just sloppy mobile game crap. In lieu of complex systems, we have 30 second battles to farm loot.
High end gear should be obtained mid game, at around the same time we get our first fief.
This is not a mobile game. Give us complex systems.
This game is a dynastic simulator and as such, the end game should be focused on that. Arranging marriages, alliances, trade etc. If it's to do with gear, then it'd be more along the lines of securing a good blacksmith or even establishing good workshops to produce said gear.
But what we have so far, is just sloppy mobile game crap. In lieu of complex systems, we have 30 second battles to farm loot.
High end gear should be obtained mid game, at around the same time we get our first fief.
This is not a mobile game. Give us complex systems.
I understand your concerns, perhaps it was my mistake to frame it as "end game" content. Of course, our game has much more to offer in the late game with complex systems. What I meant was not the end game per se but rather a late-mid game goal for our current weapons. Of course, there are legendary weapons armors that would make you feel like you obtained something powerful in the late game, this not to say obtaining powerful items is the core focus. It is something you do along with other challenges and rewards of the game.
As the end game gets more detailed, getting the good items will shift through to the earlier game (as the game gets more meaningful in the longer playthroughs)
It is an end game goal for some players. I mean, even if we buffed up the prices tenfold. We allow many different ways of gaining money and it wouldn't change much because the game allows you to come up with clever ways to make money(and no I am not talking about crafting exploits).
There has to be some grind to make your gameplay meaningful, mechanics with zero grind are considered exploits and cheats. Also, it is some amount of grind which feels good as a player, you're doing stuff(which is fun in its own way) and you're getting rewarded.
I personally believe the game has pacing issues regarding the amount of grind we put through for different play styles, (e.g. trading vs mercenary play style) but I can see that a lot of work being put into it and they're being addressed over time.
Regarding prices, it was not our intention to have 300K swords or 50K javelins, however, we want to make prices dynamic based on its usefulness instead of a person entering values 1-by-1. Therefore while fixing our formulae we require time to test the changes. Hopefully, with the new changes, there will be a relatively large price drop across all items, with items such as javelins will get significant price changes. I cannot give an exact date but it will be soon.
The next step will be the armors. For armors, the timetable is even more uncertain and but it is something we are working on.
As always thank you for your feedback.
BoBB
Thank you for responding SadShogun. That positively fills me with hope.
I am looking forward to experiencing more complex systems. The game has so much potential.
With regard to armour, may I recommend that a system be put in place? Currently, in 1.5.7b plate boots are heavier, yet offer less protection than suede boots. I'm not sure how that came to be. It seems to be in place for weapons.
I am looking forward to experiencing more complex systems. The game has so much potential.
With regard to armour, may I recommend that a system be put in place? Currently, in 1.5.7b plate boots are heavier, yet offer less protection than suede boots. I'm not sure how that came to be. It seems to be in place for weapons.
Weapons? Maybe. But there is absolutely no feeling of having powerful armor, as even the most top tier armor in the game currently feels like tissue paper and necessitates the use of mods to bring it to reasonable feeling of protection.
It does not matter if that armor costs 50k or 500k, it will still feel pretty underwhelming.
Also, if you want to drop prices of things, which is a good idea, you also need to do something about how much money players gain from post-battle loot. Players simply have way too much money in the mid to late game, and prices become pretty meaningless even when you do not abuse the smithing system.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Thank you very much for the info. Concerning armor prices, it is ok having really expensive armors, but please, do not make regular units’s armors too much expensive. Really expensive armor should only be accessible for lords (and also the player, of course) IMO.
CrazyElf
Sergeant
That's great to hear - I think that the game is slowly moving in the right direction. Pricing won't be so crazy and a bit more dynamic.
I think that the next big issue is that armor does not feel protective enough - especially given the effort involved in obtaining it.
Lords and tier 6 units should be hard to kill with heavy armor, except where it hits weak spots in the armor or areas unprotected.
I agree - Reallstic Combat Mod is often brought up, but I think that the game as a whole should make armor more protective.
Oh you just made me a happy puppy! thanks for stopping by
I agree that the game needs a degree of grinding to be fun and i'm not against some expensive gear just nothing too extreme like it is now, it would be even cooler if expensive gear were lordly variations like in warband (not obligatory and very expensive but a cool goal to blow off money in end game for that bit extra armor rating) or some legendary artifacts like Viking Conquest has for example the breastplate of Calradios, the sword of Osrac Iron-arm etc
Preach it, armor ratings need a revamp badly, they need to protect more specially high-end armor that currently feels like made of wet paper or something like that.
Shillslayer
Banned
Honestly, I think extremely high prices are a good idea. I agree with the notion that the highest-level equipment in the game should be an end-game goal. The core of the issue in my opinion was always simply the fact that these items almost never spawn.
Death2Tyrants
Veteran
Maybe that's because we have different definition of what end game is.
This is supposed to be a dynastic simulator. End game therefore should be your starting character's grand children at least.
Do you want to wait 3 generations before you get highest level equipment? I don't think so.
This is not an MMO/RPG. We're not here to farm for gear. We're here to unite Calradia.
While we are at it, anyone has any idea how we can get our hands on some 'end-game' weapons and, especially, armours? The best armours I can see are always worn by the NPC lords. They never show up in the shops (high tier horses too, although they do occasionally show up as tournament prize). I refuse to take the good stuff from my wife because it feels cheesy to me. I have tons of money from grinding (like literally millions of them), but I don't know how to deal with it. What is the mechanics here? Is this just a place holder or, will this be in the finished game?
Shillslayer
Banned
Haha, no, not really. The mount & blade games have never been about "dynastic simulation", it's just some random fancy that struck Taleworlds while developing Bannerlord, which they obviously failed miserably at.
I think the dynasty system is very poorly thought out. You can easily unite Calradia with one character on realistic difficulty, so you can basically ignore this system entirely. Sure you can play slow and keep the generations going, but what is waiting for you is just the same package for every character. Trying for another character build you say? Why not start over, the game really stops being challenging after several in-game years anyway. More years only equals more grinding. And god forbid if they try to balance the game pace in consideration with the dynasty system. That would only be painfully slow and more grindy.
This system is really non-existent for me. My playthrough never lasts beyond 1000 in-game days. This game is essentially just a battle simulator as of now, and you can only fight so many battles before getting bored.
Shillslayer
Banned
Your observation is correct, the generational gameplay is completely unecessary and outside of the traditional scope of the M&B games. In my opinion they should just remove it, it serves no purpose and is not fun.
I totally agree. I am supposed to be the leader of my band but my men are running around in some of the best armors in the game using some of the best weapons and I am still in a Studded Leather Tunic and using a Rusty Longsword. Also with 300 trading I find that I can barter for an entire city for less than it costs to buy some of the armor in the game.
I also don't how it takes 300+ days before even decent armor and equipment starts showing up for sale. I want to be able to at least see the best armors and equipment in the shop so I can window shop if you will and see what I am going to work toward latter in the game. The fact that I can't even see what might be available down the road takes all the joy of working toward things out of the game.
I also want to see nice things drop as loot not just vendor trash items. I mean they have really missed the boat here. People don't enjoy being rewarded with junk, they want actually items they can use to upgrade their characters and companions. To me it sucks that I have to actually buy things if I want decent armor and equipment that is not cracked, bent, broken or torn or of a higher tier.
I also don't how it takes 300+ days before even decent armor and equipment starts showing up for sale. I want to be able to at least see the best armors and equipment in the shop so I can window shop if you will and see what I am going to work toward latter in the game. The fact that I can't even see what might be available down the road takes all the joy of working toward things out of the game.
I also want to see nice things drop as loot not just vendor trash items. I mean they have really missed the boat here. People don't enjoy being rewarded with junk, they want actually items they can use to upgrade their characters and companions. To me it sucks that I have to actually buy things if I want decent armor and equipment that is not cracked, bent, broken or torn or of a higher tier.
I get it because it is cool to look cool. Call it Fashionlord if you will but I often go for items that look cooler on my characters than offer the best protection but a lot of this is because as you say, having an extra 10 armor on an item does virtually nothing for you.
As for your second statement, I am 100% in agreement. What this game needs is for them to focus on the framework, offer the modding community the best, most comprehensive modding toolset available and releasing the game ASAP so that all these patches quit breaking the mods and usually the modded save games along with it. The vast majority of the deficiencies will be correct by mod once the game become stable. In fact I would as far as saying that Native is nothing more than a teaser to get someone interested in the game while the real game play starts and ends at the modded experience.
