High level armor feels so worthless.

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I understand that there are players who prefer a gentler and more relaxed experience as opposed to others who need the constant challenge to enjoy it. That's what difficulty levels are for.

It's a personal appreciation, but one that I see is shared by many and is the thinking behind the idea of Talewordls "balancing" the game on easy mode. Not everyone wants or needs stabiliser wheels on the bicycle (no offence, everyone is free to enjoy it as they please when they can).

This is noticeable in the damage/protection formula but also in how the AI is tuned and how it adapts to the former. In RBM apart from modifying these damage/protection values I want to underline the importance of the tuned parameters and logics for the AI. Here is a clear example. Unlike native, in rbm bots have better combat skills, fight and move in groups formation better, maintain a proper living space and many other attitudes which make this mod an enriching experience.

In short, and back to the topic at hand; it is necessary for the health of the native game itself that Taleworlds finds a middle ground between the experience we had in warband and the one offered by RBM, Armour Does something or other similar mods.

This is a task to salvage a critical part of a very important part of Bannerlord's foundation. Although many of us use mods to solve this problem, Talewords cannot afford to delegate this, something so basic, to the modding community. It must necessarily be suitable for Native without regard.
Agreed 100%
Ok, I stand corrected on that, can't recall all discussion points from a ~year ago; but if it takes over a year to discuss, what exactly is the hesitancy to make a few 'drastic' adjustments for now? Given this is EA and a few of us play on the 'beta' of the EA version, is it not the best time to test it with the wider audience to get at quickly where the imbalances are with the changes?
I guess this is the vision™ already decided...
Some things will just not change/improve.
 
  • Armor/damage 'values' affect the 'power level' assigned to the individual troops, thereby completely messing the field simulations? Would've assumed those were under a different formula
  • Assuming weapon/armor values are tied directly to its cost; would have to mess around with the economy (ie party/lords selling loot in towns). The rest, as a single-player, is almost inconsequential (ie dichotomy in cost between buying personal armor and upgrading troops of same 'armor') or the smithing exploits (player decision - though smithing needs some fixes too)
Power level is effected only by soldier level and whether they are cav or not.
Price is bound to tier, tier is based on damage, armor etc. But we are talking about stuff that can be done in few hours and tested / tuned in few days. This is not a case of hard to do, this is case of that they dont want to do, or are not allowed to do, or dont know what they should do.
 

Sundeki

Master Knight
M&BWB
If it isn't readily apparent to everyone here: TaleWorlds clearly has it's own separate group of private people/players/testers/whatever who give feedback on all of these things, and that feedback is what's listened to. Not you. If what you said and what they said overlaps, you get change. If what you say contradicts what they say, you get thrown into the pejorative category of "disgruntled blowhard" and dismissed. Just like Multiplayer's class issue, I don't know of anyone who honestly thinks that a guy in heavy plated armor should only be a percentage more damage resistant than a lightly person, rather than an order of magnitude tankier. But the "feedback group" that TaleWorlds listens to thinks that fights that take longer than 5 minutes are too long and/or too difficult, and fighting an armored bot they don't have the combat skill to work around is too boring, and so it's staying in it's current form, with the dismissive and deflective pie in the face of "tHiS IsnT tHe fInAL iTeRatIOn, cHaNGeS wILL sTiLL oCcUR" line. With the classic supporting act of "iF yoU dOnT LikE iT, tHeN UsE ModS" from the 2% of sycophants.
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
This would be a reasonable explanation for all the stuff that happened and is happening.

I always wondered which guys received those mentioned questionarys in their EA description, anyone here?
 

Fionn153

Recruit
Just want to show my support again for this issue.
Hopefully TW acknowledge that we aren't an insignificant subset.
 

VicbossOG

Veteran
I don't understand people posting videos of Warband where swords are doing literally 0 damage against armour with decent swings and saying this is either realistic or balanced.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I don't understand people posting videos of Warband where swords are doing literally 0 damage against armour with decent swings and saying this is either realistic or balanced.
I felt alluded to and I respond to you cordially ?.


Although I share the idea like many others that a hit should never be =0 in damage value, the complaint of many users between this thread, this one and many others is a proper native balance between a realistic gameplay like RBM and the experience we had in Warband (+dlcs).

In bannerlord SP we definitely have a problem with damage/protection calculation... and that has been noticed by both the veteran and the new player joining the franchise.
 

Helerek

Recruit
I felt alluded to and I respond to you cordially ?.
You must be blind, can't you see "1 damage taken" above his head?
I don't understand people posting videos of Warband where swords are doing literally 0 damage against armour with decent swings and saying this is either realistic or balanced.
It's about finding a middle ground. The warband video prolly shows some peasant (Power strike increased weapon damage by up to 80%, so in Huscarl hands this sword might deal up to 20 damage more or less) without any skills. Problem is quantity is more important than quality in bannerlord. Which takes away one of the main aspects of the game.
 

five bucks

Knight
I don't understand people posting videos of Warband where swords are doing literally 0 damage against armour with decent swings and saying this is either realistic or balanced.
I agree that 0-damage attacks are not desirable, and are the one thing that should change from Warband's damage model- attacks should always do at least 1 damage, except for modding purposes.

HOWEVER, that is the only real flaw in Warband's system, otherwise it is better than Bannerlord in every way.

In fact, if I had to choose between Warband's combat system with 0 damage attacks included and Bannerlord's as it is now, I'd pick Warband's without hesitation. Because Bannerlord is just that bad. Armour is a total joke and it makes even large melee fights end in literally one minute and makes tactics pointless and many other problems. But you look at Warband and it didn't have those issues.

So yeah, as I said earlier in the thread, we are basically asking for something similar to Warband's combat system but with 0 damage attacks changed to 1 damage attacks.
 

CrazyElf

Sergeant
I don't understand people posting videos of Warband where swords are doing literally 0 damage against armour with decent swings and saying this is either realistic or balanced.

Same here.

This is one of the biggest issues facing the game right now in my opinion.

There's a reason why Realistic Battle Mod is constantly brought up in this forum.

Because Bannerlord is just that bad. Armour is a total joke and it makes even large melee fights end in literally one minute and makes tactics pointless and many other problems. But you look at Warband and it didn't have those issues.


Yep - it makes movement possible. The same was also true in Total War - I noticed that mods like DarthMod tended to slow the games down, as did user mods like Third Age Total War.
 

conleyc86

Recruit
The damage calculation are just silly, especially the blunt effect and especially the amount of +damage from speed.
TW needs to really tone down the damage and put a cap on speed boosted damage.
This. When hauling ass on a steed by a looter, he can seemingly miss you with their swing of their wood hammer to your heavily armored leg while you're at full health, and then it turns out they not only connected, but dealt astronomical damage because you were moving so quickly.

The frustration is compounded by the fact that this is not how physics works. When you're galloping full speed it would actually be harder to hurt you, not easier.
 

CrazyElf

Sergeant
Power level is effected only by soldier level and whether they are cav or not.
Price is bound to tier, tier is based on damage, armor etc. But we are talking about stuff that can be done in few hours and tested / tuned in few days. This is not a case of hard to do, this is case of that they dont want to do, or are not allowed to do, or dont know what they should do.

I wonder if this could be a mod.


We know that the mod to allow for a better autoresolve is already available. Maybe power level should be a function of armor, weapons, and skills.




The above mod is already a major upgrade over the stock autoresolve, but maybe it could be made better.
 

Cenobite

Recruit
Can't say Armor is the best in Bannerlord compared to older games & world mods that were produced over the years, this new tier system sucks, looters still damage characters with stones in most cases even if it's 1 point, that's something medium armor should just absorb but whatever right little rocks thrown maybe 20 yards away are really gonna do major damage to armored targets on horseback. If i'm covered head to toe in hardened leather which isn't the most heavy armor i doubt a stone would do much unless it was in a critical spot like the face or eye.

Metal armors are not much better you think Chainmail would easily shrug off some rocks thrown by bums from the farm that eat potato's all day, they are most likely to be rotten potato's too to be thrown by peasant looters & mountain bandits because they would be lucky to own any ROCKS! as they are the property of the local lord so any peasant with them needs a valid excuse to have a pile of rocks on them, a work permit so to speak for the more trusted slaves!..
 

five bucks

Knight
Can't say Armor is the best in Bannerlord compared to older games & world mods that were produced over the years, this new tier system sucks, looters still damage characters with stones in most cases even if it's 1 point, that's something medium armor should just absorb but whatever right little rocks thrown maybe 20 yards away are really gonna do major damage to armored targets on horseback. If i'm covered head to toe in hardened leather which isn't the most heavy armor i doubt a stone would do much unless it was in a critical spot like the face or eye.

Metal armors are not much better you think Chainmail would easily shrug off some rocks thrown by bums from the farm that eat potato's all day, they are most likely to be rotten potato's too to be thrown by peasant looters & mountain bandits because they would be lucky to own any ROCKS! as they are the property of the local lord so any peasant with them needs a valid excuse to have a pile of rocks on them, a work permit so to speak for the more trusted slaves!..
Agreed.

Also, I have to ask. What mod is your pic from? There seems to be a lot going on there and I love it.
 
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