High level armor feels so worthless.

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vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Bannerlord's armor formula is a complete joke and people have been pointing this to TW since closed beta to no avail, Warband's one wasn't perfect but it was miles better noneless and a very good middle term between realism and fun.

I remember there was a very detailed thread comparing both formulas side by side from the early BL days and nothing came of it, then TW had contacted Philozoraptor (RBM author) about improvements to armor, everyone got hyped again and then.. nothing came out of it too.

Mods are the only salvation left for this game, just hope we got any modders left when this finally gets out of early access...
 

Calabanar

Sergeant at Arms
Bannerlord's armor formula is a complete joke and people have been pointing this to TW since closed beta to no avail, Warband's one wasn't perfect but it was miles better noneless and a very good middle term between realism and fun.

I remember there was a very detailed thread comparing both formulas side by side from the early BL days and nothing came of it, then TW had contacted Philozoraptor (RBM author) about improvements to armor, everyone got hyped again and then.. nothing came out of it too.

Mods are the only salvation left for this game, just hope we got any modders left when this finally gets out of early access...
Wasn't there a brief moment, a few months, at the start of EA where armor actually was more effective? I remember struggling to damage armored ennemies in tournaments during the first few weeks of EA, before the charge bonus of cav got nerfed.
 

Ask

Sergeant
Well said 😌

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black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
And I get that you have your own vision of what the game should be... but so do we. And while we do use player feedback to help us inform our decisions and shape the game, it doesn't necessarily mean that we will just implement everything suggested.

To be straight with you, I know that a lot of people would enjoy more realistic armour that deflects and absorbs attacks. I'm aware of the perceived benefits that it could bring for this subset of players, such as battles that play out over longer periods of time allowing for more manoeuvring and such, as well as that additional sense of personal progression when you finally can afford that badass armour and become a tank on the battlefield (among other things). And look, we could sit here and debate about how that would impact the length of battles, which in turn impacts the pace of the campaign itself, and I'm sure you would have reasonable ideas and responses to whatever I said, but ultimately the outcome is going to be the same.

Armour values are still open for adjustments and balancing, but I wouldn't expect a dramatic shift from what is present in-game right now.
OK and that's fine. But please answer this, why should I have to pay 100K + on an elite piece of armor that won't protect me better than a 5-10K piece? If the top tier armor was just about looks and had a small to moderate price increase I could understand this but it's overpriced for what it does. :unsure:

Obtw people on these forums are trying to give feedback that this mechanic isn't fun. This has been a constant complaint and a quick check on the topic yields dozens of threads from many different people not just older players but new ones too. Having a vision is fine but to completely disregard player feedback during an ea with this is our vision thanks but no thanks without any real elaboration comes across as disingenuous and condescending. If you wanted to make the game that you wanted without player feedback then why have an ea or at least why say you want player feedback during the ea?
 

Cormmans

Recruit
The people playing and enjoying the game.
I had to register to reply to this, to represent "My people"
You are aware that "people enjoying the game" include people that are playing the game and aren't 100% satisfied with it.
The recent updates are awesome, and i understand you might be frustrated with a very vocal part of the community, but this particular comment strikes me as out of touch. (Bought the game march 2022)
I have been annoyed by the effectiveness of arrows thanks to butter armor, me and many others. to the degree that that i downloaded the realistic battle mod, that changes the armor values, the game is so much better for it, you actually feel strong with endgame armor.
Its got over half a million download, that should give you an indication that it's popular with your community.

also wtf are you talking about with campaign pacing? Just autoresolve if battles take too long.
 

Cormmans

Recruit
Bannerlord's armor formula is a complete joke and people have been pointing this to TW since closed beta to no avail, Warband's one wasn't perfect but it was miles better noneless and a very good middle term between realism and fun.

I remember there was a very detailed thread comparing both formulas side by side from the early BL days and nothing came of it, then TW had contacted Philozoraptor (RBM author) about improvements to armor, everyone got hyped again and then.. nothing came out of it too.

Mods are the only salvation left for this game, just hope we got any modders left when this finally gets out of early access...
That kinda language serves no purpose, there's no need to disrespect the devs to this degree, no wonder they don't give a **** about your input.
I understand getting frustrated after not being listened to, but you have no authority over them, get off your high horse.
I would prefer you didn't post if you're gonna speak like that, you certainly don't represent the interest of the rest of the playerbase with that ****ty attitude
 

Akka

Sergeant at Arms
That kinda language serves no purpose, there's no need to disrespect the devs to this degree, no wonder they don't give a **** about your input.
I understand getting frustrated after not being listened to, but you have no authority over them, get off your high horse.
I would prefer you didn't post if you're gonna speak like that, you certainly don't represent the interest of the rest of the playerbase with that ****ty attitude
I don't really understand why you're singling out this poster. His post is actually rather matter-of-fact and not insulting. There were a lot of much more aggressive and insulting posts that would have deserved your comment, but not really this one.
Consider me puzzled :?:
 

Cormmans

Recruit
I don't really understand why you're singling out this poster. His post is actually rather matter-of-fact and not insulting. There were a lot of much more aggressive and insulting posts that would have deserved your comment, but not really this one.
Consider me puzzled :?:
His account rank indicates he's a regular poster to me, and i havent bothered to read any other comments

Calling the developer's work a Joke, saying mods are the only salvation etc etc etc.
It is very disrespectful, and if someone spoke like that to me, it'd be enough to disregard everything they said.
I havent looked around on the forum, but i can see the longtime posters are extremely bitter.
This aint conducive for a positive collaborative environment between developer and player, and is problably a large part as to why the dev's don't really listen, cause nobody gives a **** about what someone toxic has to say about your game, calling your game a joke, etc. It takes enough "Veteran posters" that don't speak up against this **** behavior that you all start getting disregarded.

Especially with this ****ing stupid banner you guys have put on in this thread, are you expecting to be heard NOW? after doing this kind of ****? are you suprised the devs aren't listening? Childish
 

Kapr Kral

Sergeant
WBNWVC
And I get that you have your own vision of what the game should be... but so do we.

I have a genuine question about the topic of armor / difficulty settings and Taleworlds' vision for Bannerlord. What difficulty settings most closely align with Taleworlds' vision for experiencing Bannerlord?

The reason I ask, is that Taleworlds' is probably balancing armor values around specific difficulty settings. When players begin to change those settings, we might be playing the game in a way Taleworlds' has not guaranteed to be a balanced experience. I know many of the long time fans play at higher difficulty settings, such as Realistic, but I wonder if the game really hasn't been balanced for playing on those settings. So, what difficulty settings does Taleworlds' recommend that players use for Bannerlord?
 

five bucks

Knight
His account rank indicates he's a regular poster to me, and i havent bothered to read any other comments

Calling the developer's work a Joke, saying mods are the only salvation etc etc etc.
It is very disrespectful, and if someone spoke like that to me, it'd be enough to disregard everything they said.
I havent looked around on the forum, but i can see the longtime posters are extremely bitter.
This aint conducive for a positive collaborative environment between developer and player, and is problably a large part as to why the dev's don't really listen, cause nobody gives a **** about what someone toxic has to say about your game, calling your game a joke, etc. It takes enough "Veteran posters" that don't speak up against this **** behavior that you all start getting disregarded.

Especially with this ****ing stupid banner you guys have put on in this thread, are you expecting to be heard NOW? after doing this kind of ****? are you suprised the devs aren't listening? Childish
I try to be constructive with feedback, but if you stick around the forums you'll learn why some posters are rude. A lot of them were exactly like you back at launch, sticking up for TW.

That was two years ago and since then a huge amount of problems with the game have still not been fixed and TW's communication with us - on the very rare times they communicate - is very rarely positive, it's usually either "we'll get back to you" (25% chance of this happening) or "your feedback isn't in line with the vision Taleworlds has for the game".

Plus, Callum seems only to respond to posters who are rude or have really easy to answer questions. I give him constructive questions to answer/discuss and he just skips those and replies to people throwing vitriol at him.
 

Cormmans

Recruit
It's an early access game, YOU choose to support a beta product.


I'm not even just defending them, i'm saying that if people want to have ANY hope of being listened to, this behavior is 100% surefire way to get disregarded.
Even YOUR use of language is a great example, you said two years ago you were respectful?
Well lets take a look at your thread shall we:
********** Good features from Warband which are still missing in Bannerlord **********
Thread is a perfect example.
You meantioning that some people say the game is shallow and lifeless is completely unecessary, your wording is GARBAGE.
Already from the getgo you're starting the thread with disrespect.
Some of these seem small on their own, but all together, they create a major improvement in variety and immersion. Without (most of) these features, or similar features to replace their benefits, Bannerlord will not be a good sequel to Warband.

Taleworlds has said it is committed to making Bannerlord to the community's expectations. Based on various threads and polls on the forum and elsewhere, a large part of the community wants Bannerlord to have all the good features of Warband. So, can we please get an official statement from Taleworlds on this?
You're implying that these features NEED to be added for this game to be good
"Bannerlord will not be a good sequel to warband" - What a joke, you were never respectful

I agree that a lot of these features would be fun to have, but its not neccesary for a good game, i'd rather see them innovate and add new things, which they have, which is why its a **** comparison.

The "Veterans" on this forum are a joke, Masturbatory banners of how dissatisfied they are, whiny posts all over the place. The forums are toxic as hell, meanwhile they think they speak for the rest of the playerbase because of how much time they've spent on the forum.
Honestly you need to look no further than to look at Blood Gryphon and Tercio_Viejo's banners to see this self important attitude.
 

Danny5

Squire
Anyways...back to the topic of how the game needs improvement...I mean fixing....I mean changing things....oh nvm lol.

Question, are butter armour a feature or a bug? Like have they agreed to keep it as is or are they working on it?
 

five bucks

Knight
I'm not even just defending them, i'm saying that if people want to have ANY hope of being listened to, this behavior is 100% surefire way to get disregarded
Rude people actually seem to get replied to more than polite ones.
You meantioning that some people say the game is shallow and lifeless is completely unecessary, your wording is GARBAGE.
Already from the getgo you're starting the thread with disrespect.
You're implying that these features NEED to be added for this game to be good
"Bannerlord will not be a good sequel to warband" - What a joke, you were never respectful
All of that sounds like constructive criticism to me, especially because it's true. A game can not be a "good sequel" if it drops a lot of features people liked from the last game. It can still be a good game, but not a good sequel. The point of a sequel is to replicate what people liked about the last game and then expand on that. You use the same name with a number after it is to say: "hey, did you like Game? Well Game: 2 has what you liked and more!"
i'd rather see them innovate and add new things, which they have
Yes, they have. However despite what they have added in some areas the game has gone backwards from Warband in other areas, as I have said. You don't have to choose between innovation and bringing back what people liked, you can do both - modders have shown that this can be done in 1 week, check the front page.
The "Veterans" on this forum are a joke, Masturbatory banners of how dissatisfied they are, whiny posts all over the place. The forums are toxic as hell, meanwhile they think they speak for the rest of the playerbase because of how much time they've spent on the forum.
Honestly you need to look no further than to look at Blood Gryphon and Tercio_Viejo's banners to see this self important attitude.
Is this a troll post? It reads like one.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant at Arms
I wonder how many pages you have read from the thousands upon thousands including a lot of very well written and detailed feedback.

What's your plan joining here then? Defending the devs? We all did that at the start of EA. Perhaps making constructive feedback then? I see none. Picking a fight then? That might be it.

In any case people like you have come, stayed, left, this forum's pretty dead anyway. If you want fights, there's always the Steam discussions, they are still quite lively from what I remember. :grin:
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
The "Veterans" on this forum are a joke, Masturbatory banners of how dissatisfied they are, whiny posts all over the place. The forums are toxic as hell, meanwhile they think they speak for the rest of the playerbase because of how much time they've spent on the forum.
Honestly you need to look no further than to look at Blood Gryphon and Tercio_Viejo's banners to see this self important attitude.
@Terco_Viejo and I have been some of the most positive and respectful posters on this forum, you are right that this is likely why some of our feedback has turned into actual changes. Personally i think its mostly because Terco and I provide evidence based recommendations and actually test things out, giving developers data to stand on when trying things out themselves. But you haven't been around long enough to know what it was like it in the past and how much things have changed.

In beta we had actual communication with the round table of decision makers and it made a huge difference in how the game turned out. Once EA started that communication stopped and our only way at making any change was to directly talk to developers during their time off and hope that they could sneak in changes so it wouldn't get slapped down at suggestion meetings without any explanation for why or consideration that these ideas might impact the game for the better.

We adorn these badges now as its been clearly stated we belong to a subset of people whose opinion doesn't need to be heard. You want to talk about disrespect?

Don't misunderstand me, by no means am I saying anything we say should go. There have been plenty of suggestions that when put to the test doesn't have the intended impact and are rejected. I have no issues with that because they were tested and communicated why it didn't work out, what more can someone ask for? Discussion is the key thing that dissolves contention, we just want more of it. We want the Why™.
 
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Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
Rude people actually seem to get replied to more than polite ones.
Not really, at least for me, they reduce my level of activity.

Ontopic - We are still looking at the armor calculation (and the recent discussions didn't go terrible). I don't think we have ever said that we won't make any changes.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Ontopic - We are still looking at the armor calculation (and the recent discussions didn't go terrible). I don't think we have ever said that we won't make any changes.
Good to hear. I will state tho that while I agree armor should be more impactful, RBM takes it a bit too far for me personally and can make arrows feel useless. A middle ground would be awesome.
At any rate, just to provide some context to the discussion, here is what Bannerlord's hit-to-kill is like right now:
v2G3VMy.png

And here's what Warband's hit-to-kill is like (didn't finish tidying it up, may have some inaccuracies but gives you an idea):

vpi3RMH.png

When you look at the difference between the two, the average hits-to-kill against a same-tier archer is 6 or 7 in Warband, and about 4 in Bannerlord.
Five I would love to see the impacts of RBM in this manner. Personally i think its even higher than warband, but my opinion is based on experience and not data.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
It's an early access game, YOU choose to support a beta product.
“Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005. By working alongside our community we were able to deliver a unique gaming experience that players still enjoy to this day. These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect.
This is a direct quote from the Bannerlord Steam page. It's ok for Taleworlds to not add features but when a core feature such as how bad armor is at doing it's job has been requested to be reevaluated over and over again and not just be veteran players but by new players, but Taleworlds only response amounts to "it's our game and we'll make it the way we want" without any discussion that's a piss poor attitude by the company. Which means either they don't want discussion or they feel that what we have to say isn't important.
I'm not even just defending them, i'm saying that if people want to have ANY hope of being listened to, this behavior is 100% surefire way to get disregarded.
Even YOUR use of language is a great example, you said two years ago you were respectful?
Many of us have been trying for literal years to get Taleworlds to even discuss features but their modus operandi is radio silence. But in the rare cases when we get do get a response it's either "we'll look into it/think about it" with no follow up or "too complex" or "not our vision". There's no explanation no discussion.
Well lets take a look at your thread shall we:
********** Good features from Warband which are still missing in Bannerlord **********
Thread is a perfect example.
You meantioning that some people say the game is shallow and lifeless is completely unecessary, your wording is GARBAGE.
Already from the getgo you're starting the thread with disrespect.

You're implying that these features NEED to be added for this game to be good
"Bannerlord will not be a good sequel to warband" - What a joke, you were never respectful
He's stating that those features are either missing from the original title. A successor title shouldn't be missing so many features in the vanilla game play of the original. There's an expectation that a follow up game is going to do something similar while adding even more depth to the game.
I agree that a lot of these features would be fun to have, but its not neccesary for a good game, i'd rather see them innovate and add new things, which they have, which is why its a **** comparison.
Yes they would be nice to have and they would add depth to the game making the world more fleshed out, on top of all that as @Bloc has show in the last few weeks most of these features could be added in just a few hours or a couple of days but Taleworlds won't do it for "reasons".
The "Veterans" on this forum are a joke, Masturbatory banners of how dissatisfied they are, whiny posts all over the place. The forums are toxic as hell, meanwhile they think they speak for the rest of the playerbase because of how much time they've spent on the forum.
Honestly you need to look no further than to look at Blood Gryphon and Tercio_Viejo's banners to see this self important attitude.
You claim veterans are disrespectful of Taleworlds but then you make statements like this it pretty much invalidates anything else you could say. @Blood Gryphon and @Terco_Viejo have spent countless hours writing detailed posts and threads about issues and bugs. They've tried to work hand and hand with devs to resolve problems by providing dozens of hours of game play logs. They've provided a ton of feedback and well thought out posts trying to make this game better. What exactly have you done to make the game better that you can criticize them? I see this attitude by a lot of newer members who come in and think the game is great and for some reason seem to take it personally that others offer critic. You may not like what others have to say on a subject but if you don't want to be seen as a hypocrite then maybe try to stay away from name calling and inflammatory remarks.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Not really, at least for me, they reduce my level of activity.

Ontopic - We are still looking at the armor calculation (and the recent discussions didn't go terrible). I don't think we have ever said that we won't make any changes.
I'm glad you company is still open to discussion but maybe you all should get on the same page because when Callum make statements like this:
If you are struggling with the amount of damage you are taking then you might want to consider lowering the "Player Received Damage" Campaign Options difficulty setting.
or this:
And I get that you have your own vision of what the game should be... but so do we. And while we do use player feedback to help us inform our decisions and shape the game, it doesn't necessarily mean that we will just implement everything suggested.

To be straight with you, I know that a lot of people would enjoy more realistic armour that deflects and absorbs attacks. I'm aware of the perceived benefits that it could bring for this subset of players, such as battles that play out over longer periods of time allowing for more manoeuvring and such, as well as that additional sense of personal progression when you finally can afford that badass armour and become a tank on the battlefield (among other things). And look, we could sit here and debate about how that would impact the length of battles, which in turn impacts the pace of the campaign itself, and I'm sure you would have reasonable ideas and responses to whatever I said, but ultimately the outcome is going to be the same.

Armour values are still open for adjustments and balancing, but I wouldn't expect a dramatic shift from what is present in-game right now.
That kind of invalidates what you're saying.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant at Arms
Not really, at least for me, they reduce my level of activity.

Ontopic - We are still looking at the armor calculation (and the recent discussions didn't go terrible). I don't think we have ever said that we won't make any changes.
Nice to hear from you Duh!

Do you know if the Armor Calculation at the start of EA (I'm talking first few weeks) were drastically different? I remember armor being much more effective, especially in tournaments (for obvious reasons).
 
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