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Hideouts are fine!
- 主题发起人 Ahad88
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LordUlysse
Recruit
I agree with all said here. To me they are fine..sometimes. They are fine lategame, because you have good companions full tier 6 and even with 30 bandits u can raid, recover, raid, recover, raid e ventually u get it. But it takes time and you have other time constraints, yet it's okay that you deal yourself with time constraints, early game tho they can be a real pain in the ass.
If it was me I would choose a spot that lets me take all my belongings and run usi
The problem is that hideout spawned initially at the start of campaign seem stuck. Bandits never go out from them and they stack to 120 units. If You take them out than new ones will work fine. At least that was the case for me and I was really pissed off by taking sea riders hideouts with 100 troops draining them piece by piece.
Can we get a confirmation from a mod about this? Because I honestly dont think the parties inside the hide out are supposed to be this big 
I mean the entire premise is that they have a hidden hideout thats hard to find where a skeleton crew protects their base of operations right?
100+ big isent a number of men that you can casually hide. Nor would a little stream or a cave be near enough space to house all of them. It seems to be more likely that its bugged then that its intended...
I mean the entire premise is that they have a hidden hideout thats hard to find where a skeleton crew protects their base of operations right?
100+ big isent a number of men that you can casually hide. Nor would a little stream or a cave be near enough space to house all of them. It seems to be more likely that its bugged then that its intended...
Hideout missions are a good little concept, and I really like that you go with some of your best men, A-Team style, you and your oldest war buddies, to take out a bandit leader silently. And they could become a cool thing no one disliked much IF:
1- It always picked your best guys. WHY WOULD YOU NOT TAKE YOUR BEST GUYS?
2- There were more maps than the one river creek. Maybe a cave (a big cave), maybe a runed castle, maybe a beach cave, if the position is right...
3- There was more visual flair to the night time atmosphere. Night lighting is very flat and uninspiring.
4- You had more options outright. Let me, for example, sneak in like we've been doing until now, or call the bandits out and see if they face you or try to run (maybe the bandits could spot you and react in time), or call them out but call for the duel before you cut through all the bandits, or try and reason with them in some way (bribe them, hire them... use the social stats!!!!)
1- It always picked your best guys. WHY WOULD YOU NOT TAKE YOUR BEST GUYS?
2- There were more maps than the one river creek. Maybe a cave (a big cave), maybe a runed castle, maybe a beach cave, if the position is right...
3- There was more visual flair to the night time atmosphere. Night lighting is very flat and uninspiring.
4- You had more options outright. Let me, for example, sneak in like we've been doing until now, or call the bandits out and see if they face you or try to run (maybe the bandits could spot you and react in time), or call them out but call for the duel before you cut through all the bandits, or try and reason with them in some way (bribe them, hire them... use the social stats!!!!)
megaheat
Recruit
Hideouts are a great concept but, yes, needs tweaking. I don't mind them trying to keep it small scale, a i think Hideouts are good for the early game. Once your army gets large (100+) maybe time to fight bigger things
If they want to keep the whole "sneak up on them or they run" concept, it could be probably tied to the player/companion scout level, which adds to the RPG side of the game.
- Cap the limit as to how many can be in a bandit base (so its not so lucrative looking to bigger armies)
- Let the players choose who can be in the party (could pick best, but bringing in a weaker unit helps with XP for them)
- Let the player choose how many - maybe set a range: 10 - 50 (??)
- Player/Clan member Scout ability used as a background roll and a measure of a successful roll modified by the number of troops player chose to bring as well as how many bandits are present.
- More troops chosen by player to come along will make the roll "worse" for player as the bandits may be alerted. Results would vary :
1. Totally blew it - bandits alerted well ahead of attack. All bandits escape. minimum loot found remaining
2. Varying levels of scout roll success - some bandits escape and fewer are remaining. The better your scout success, the more bandits were caught at the hideout.
Something like this would let the player decide how many troops he wants, knowing that more is better in the fight, but runs a bigger chance of scaring them all off and having less loot. For quests to remove a bandit hideout, they could be adjusted to ask for proof by bringing in the leader. If they all escaped, the township is not convinced they are truly safe and would give less rewards for that case.
If they want to keep the whole "sneak up on them or they run" concept, it could be probably tied to the player/companion scout level, which adds to the RPG side of the game.
- Cap the limit as to how many can be in a bandit base (so its not so lucrative looking to bigger armies)
- Let the players choose who can be in the party (could pick best, but bringing in a weaker unit helps with XP for them)
- Let the player choose how many - maybe set a range: 10 - 50 (??)
- Player/Clan member Scout ability used as a background roll and a measure of a successful roll modified by the number of troops player chose to bring as well as how many bandits are present.
- More troops chosen by player to come along will make the roll "worse" for player as the bandits may be alerted. Results would vary :
1. Totally blew it - bandits alerted well ahead of attack. All bandits escape. minimum loot found remaining
2. Varying levels of scout roll success - some bandits escape and fewer are remaining. The better your scout success, the more bandits were caught at the hideout.
Something like this would let the player decide how many troops he wants, knowing that more is better in the fight, but runs a bigger chance of scaring them all off and having less loot. For quests to remove a bandit hideout, they could be adjusted to ask for proof by bringing in the leader. If they all escaped, the township is not convinced they are truly safe and would give less rewards for that case.
zeidrich
Recruit
Hideouts aren't really fine.
Hideouts don't really work properly with the size of the bandit mobile parties that infest them. I mean in terms of troop placement. You can see what it looks like when it's working properly because there are positions where they have camps, if you have good sized parties in the hideout you see people sitting around a campfire, a guy patrolling, a couple guys sleeping on a bed, some guys standing around some stolen loot. It looks like it is intentional.
When you have 3 mobile parties that are 30+ troops, it doesn't look right. Instead of these little camps of guys that look intentionally placed with their unique idle animations, you get a crowd of troops spawned in because the preset locations are filled up and it just spawns a clump of them in the general location standing at ready.
My opinion is that a max of about 10 or so troops per bandit party is near about what the game is intended to support. This is still a challenging encounter, because that's 40 bandits. This makes good sense because you're allowed to bring 9 troops I think.
The way that the bandits spawn in is that there's various different area markers, which are little camps, or little rooms, or caves, or whatever. Within those markers are standing points where they have their predefined positions. In the case that there's no more bandits than standing points, you can have some kind of cool encounters, generally you can as the player position your own troops to lie in wait, and shoot an arrow into the room, maybe even taking down 1 or 2 bandits as they charge towards you, at which point you retreat back to your formation and let your ambush take a very advantageous fight. Then you move to the next room and do the same. So while you're fighting with odds at 4 to 1 against you overall, each combat is about 1 to 1 with an your party having the advantage against the troops that are generally sitting or sleeping or not paying attention. This is actually a pretty fun experience though a bit repetitive.
On the other hand, this whole dynamic changes when the number of bandits get too high. The whole hand crafted system of bandits appearing to go about their business while you sneak in on them disappears, because all of the excess bandits just get spawned in a clump standing ready waiting for you. A couple of other things happen, one is that where there might have been two rooms that previously you could sneakily engage separately, now because there's so many bandits engaging one will alert the other and they'll all come after you. Next, where you were previously fighting a number of relatively even battles with an advantage because of surprise, but without being able to heal up, now you are fighting a couple giant battles where you're vastly outnumbered.
I think that maybe there was intentions to change the way that roaming bandit parties left the hideout, for instance, or maybe at one point in development it did work differently but now it's changed. Maybe bandit party sizes didn't scale up as high as they used to but they changed it. But the bandit camps are absolutely designed to hold a maximum number of troops, and if they DO hold that number of troops, the act of ambushing the hideout does look and play much better and is pretty fair.
The other big deal is that you don't get to choose your party to attack the hideout, and that while you can influence it by changing the order of troops, you always must bring all of your clan members and it doesn't entirely respect the party order. So you're forced to bring your surgeon even if they're not really the best fighter, and you might end up with a couple of recruits.
I've got some other issues with hideout and bandit/looter behavior in general, but that's more about how they work on the map, and less to do with how attacking the hideout is, and in fact this is probably much more related the the reason WHY hideouts have so many bandits in them, because this is directly related to the number and size of bandit parties that have entered the hideout map location, when they leave, how many get generated, etc.
But the result is, 40 bandits on the map is OK. 40 bandits in the hideout is OK. 3-4 parties of 40 bandits in the hideout is a problem. Plus it would be good if bandits on the map made better decisions, but generally units on the map can make better decisions.
However, the alternative of bringing 100 units to kill 100 bandits in a camp also is terrible. 100 vs 100 battles in a town or the open field is good. Bandit hideouts are a specific type of gameplay, where you should be attacking with a small team of your best soldiers, setting up ambushes, taking them unaware, and cleaning out a larger number with a smaller party. Sometimes you get to have that experience and it's fun. Sometimes the bandit camps are empty and you just fight the leader and his men and it's much less fun. Sometimes you end up finding a camp with 130 bandits and it's kind of impossible.
You can even things out a bit by hanging around the base until some bandits leave, you can also enter the fight, kill a few and then retreat and come back. But these aren't really fun solutions. What would be fun would be that when you find a bandit lair that you can sneak in with your SEAL team and take them out in their sleep. There's also nothing wrong with waiting until it's a bit less defended, but the way the bandit map behavior works they're just going to stay in the hideout for a very long time, and it's not worth it to try to find an advantageous time to strike. Nor will they ever split a party up to leave defenders in the hideout.
Hideouts don't really work properly with the size of the bandit mobile parties that infest them. I mean in terms of troop placement. You can see what it looks like when it's working properly because there are positions where they have camps, if you have good sized parties in the hideout you see people sitting around a campfire, a guy patrolling, a couple guys sleeping on a bed, some guys standing around some stolen loot. It looks like it is intentional.
When you have 3 mobile parties that are 30+ troops, it doesn't look right. Instead of these little camps of guys that look intentionally placed with their unique idle animations, you get a crowd of troops spawned in because the preset locations are filled up and it just spawns a clump of them in the general location standing at ready.
My opinion is that a max of about 10 or so troops per bandit party is near about what the game is intended to support. This is still a challenging encounter, because that's 40 bandits. This makes good sense because you're allowed to bring 9 troops I think.
The way that the bandits spawn in is that there's various different area markers, which are little camps, or little rooms, or caves, or whatever. Within those markers are standing points where they have their predefined positions. In the case that there's no more bandits than standing points, you can have some kind of cool encounters, generally you can as the player position your own troops to lie in wait, and shoot an arrow into the room, maybe even taking down 1 or 2 bandits as they charge towards you, at which point you retreat back to your formation and let your ambush take a very advantageous fight. Then you move to the next room and do the same. So while you're fighting with odds at 4 to 1 against you overall, each combat is about 1 to 1 with an your party having the advantage against the troops that are generally sitting or sleeping or not paying attention. This is actually a pretty fun experience though a bit repetitive.
On the other hand, this whole dynamic changes when the number of bandits get too high. The whole hand crafted system of bandits appearing to go about their business while you sneak in on them disappears, because all of the excess bandits just get spawned in a clump standing ready waiting for you. A couple of other things happen, one is that where there might have been two rooms that previously you could sneakily engage separately, now because there's so many bandits engaging one will alert the other and they'll all come after you. Next, where you were previously fighting a number of relatively even battles with an advantage because of surprise, but without being able to heal up, now you are fighting a couple giant battles where you're vastly outnumbered.
I think that maybe there was intentions to change the way that roaming bandit parties left the hideout, for instance, or maybe at one point in development it did work differently but now it's changed. Maybe bandit party sizes didn't scale up as high as they used to but they changed it. But the bandit camps are absolutely designed to hold a maximum number of troops, and if they DO hold that number of troops, the act of ambushing the hideout does look and play much better and is pretty fair.
The other big deal is that you don't get to choose your party to attack the hideout, and that while you can influence it by changing the order of troops, you always must bring all of your clan members and it doesn't entirely respect the party order. So you're forced to bring your surgeon even if they're not really the best fighter, and you might end up with a couple of recruits.
I've got some other issues with hideout and bandit/looter behavior in general, but that's more about how they work on the map, and less to do with how attacking the hideout is, and in fact this is probably much more related the the reason WHY hideouts have so many bandits in them, because this is directly related to the number and size of bandit parties that have entered the hideout map location, when they leave, how many get generated, etc.
But the result is, 40 bandits on the map is OK. 40 bandits in the hideout is OK. 3-4 parties of 40 bandits in the hideout is a problem. Plus it would be good if bandits on the map made better decisions, but generally units on the map can make better decisions.
However, the alternative of bringing 100 units to kill 100 bandits in a camp also is terrible. 100 vs 100 battles in a town or the open field is good. Bandit hideouts are a specific type of gameplay, where you should be attacking with a small team of your best soldiers, setting up ambushes, taking them unaware, and cleaning out a larger number with a smaller party. Sometimes you get to have that experience and it's fun. Sometimes the bandit camps are empty and you just fight the leader and his men and it's much less fun. Sometimes you end up finding a camp with 130 bandits and it's kind of impossible.
You can even things out a bit by hanging around the base until some bandits leave, you can also enter the fight, kill a few and then retreat and come back. But these aren't really fun solutions. What would be fun would be that when you find a bandit lair that you can sneak in with your SEAL team and take them out in their sleep. There's also nothing wrong with waiting until it's a bit less defended, but the way the bandit map behavior works they're just going to stay in the hideout for a very long time, and it's not worth it to try to find an advantageous time to strike. Nor will they ever split a party up to leave defenders in the hideout.
最后编辑:
They actually make it seem logical when you take the mission with the mission giver saying something like: "These bandits are well positioned and can see a large army approaching and can easily evade them." Thus you take a small strike force to infiltrate and destroy.
I agree that this is ridiculous and would be egregious if it wasn't EA. Why can't we select the troops we take into the hideout??? A selection screen prompt or just moving the troops we want to take inside to the top of the troop list would suffice.... Barring that why wouldn't the devs make it so the troops selected to go with you aren't your companions and random troops from your party but the top quality troops within your party. It's weird that it is the way it is even though it's EA.
There should be more options to do things to them too, like why not build a catapult or set a fire or trick them to come out, depending on you skills or traits.
SO much potential for fun but now it's a waste because you're lose some units and it's not worth it.
A related thing is how inconsistent bandit parties can be. I don't know if it's from them leveling up but sometimes steppe bandits will be all raiders and thats just stupid.
SO much potential for fun but now it's a waste because you're lose some units and it's not worth it.
A related thing is how inconsistent bandit parties can be. I don't know if it's from them leveling up but sometimes steppe bandits will be all raiders and thats just stupid.
blightedscrib
Recruit
Hi all, I ll but in the discussion. I play realistic.
That said once attacked a hide out pre patch were bandits had better bows, had veterans and imperial tier infantry. They were like 20 vs 10 mine and we got reckt.
It shouldnt be like that since hideout is pretty spread out, but even then got killed.
2nd experience was empty and boss fight pop, didn't accepted duel and got insta kill by javelin, won but got killed.
So in my experience there are several issues here.
1st Who you go with, camp distribution and horses. We should be able to pick who goes, camp shouldn't be that spread out, there should be a % of troops that goes with us based on our army size and we could bring horses.
We lay in wait till nightfall for that, horses can sneak too.
2nd Most important, difficulty of bandits, since we have already mercs, bandits pass to second term, with I mean to farm either xp, loot or relations with a settlement.
Like looters, but forest bandits bowmen kill way to easy and mountain bandits are even worse since they have horses. That to me they shouldn't, Lord's and even Companions lose to them often and since player is the only one who can destroy hideouts it makes things complicated.
That said once attacked a hide out pre patch were bandits had better bows, had veterans and imperial tier infantry. They were like 20 vs 10 mine and we got reckt.
It shouldnt be like that since hideout is pretty spread out, but even then got killed.
2nd experience was empty and boss fight pop, didn't accepted duel and got insta kill by javelin, won but got killed.
So in my experience there are several issues here.
1st Who you go with, camp distribution and horses. We should be able to pick who goes, camp shouldn't be that spread out, there should be a % of troops that goes with us based on our army size and we could bring horses.
We lay in wait till nightfall for that, horses can sneak too.
2nd Most important, difficulty of bandits, since we have already mercs, bandits pass to second term, with I mean to farm either xp, loot or relations with a settlement.
Like looters, but forest bandits bowmen kill way to easy and mountain bandits are even worse since they have horses. That to me they shouldn't, Lord's and even Companions lose to them often and since player is the only one who can destroy hideouts it makes things complicated.
White Ahroun
Banned
I do fine with hideouts. Shields up. Probably solved. It was really never that big an issue and I'm pretty tired of watching people ***** about it. Good on OP for finally making a thread with a little sense behind it.
