"Hero" NPCs that share and share alike?

[Burnov]

Is there a way to make certain unique NPCs like that guy you find in the zendar tavern, -not- charge you money when you trade with him?

I mean the guy has bugger all for money, and I've given him -MY- padded cloth armor, my old spirited steppe horse, a mace, and my old bow and arrows.

Surely you'd think the guy might be a little grateful and carry a few extra things for me when I don't have the space.

But, ohhh no. He has the gall to charge me money if I happen to want anything back.

Is there a way to mod this? Specifically without stuffing your save games?

I doubt it but I thought I'd ask.

 

[Narcissus]

This has been asked previously ... but as far as I know there was never a way to do it that was found.

If I recall, I believe that it is hard-coded into the game and impossible to do at the moment.

Narcissus

 

[Lobos]

Is there a way to give em money? So they give you something when you give them stuff? Then, when you take it back you just give em back the same money he gave ya?

 

[Narcissus]

You do realize that you would get the exact same results, right?

Anyways ... as far as I know, no ... there is no way to actually give your heroes money other than just waiting and let their 'salary' slowly add up.

Narcissus

 

[Lobos]

No, I mean, changing one of the txt files or with the editor?

Give em money out of my pocket? HELL NO, worked hard for the 687 denars currently in my inventory...

 

[Luthius]

You could always cheat yourself 1000, give the npc 1000's worth of stuff- if you have it, then buy it all back. That way he gains the 1000 as the stuff you gave him is a free-bee.

 

[Narcissus]

No, I mean, changing one of the txt files or with the editor?

Give em money out of my pocket? HELL NO, worked hard for the 687 denars currently in my inventory...

Oh wow ... I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

After re-reading your post, I see more clearly what you were saying.

Luthius has a good alternative though ... using the cheat codes to give yourself 1,000 denars to then 'buy back' your items. You couldn't get it to an exact amount, but as a general rule (and used in moderation) that idea could work quite well.

Narcissus

 

[Mage246]

Why shouldn't you pay to get items from the NPC, and why shouldn't he pay you to get items that you give him? They may fight for you, but these guys aren't your servants or your slaves, they *volunteered* to fight with you, and you would expect that they would want to be treated like an equal. In most RPGs, your followers are basically just slightly useful cannon fodder to keep you alive, and they don't get anything for doing it. This just doesn't make any sense.

The problem is not with the current system, but with the tiny amount of money that the NPCs get, as well as the tiny rate at which it accumulates. If I spend my hard-earned money and gear to equip my NPCs better, I expect to be compensated more than 10 or less denars, especailly when the object in question cost me 800 or more denars.... I'm not saying I should get back the entire buying price, after all I am benefiting from giving it to the NPC, so I should pay *something* for this benefit. However, the benefit that the NPC gets from a superior weapon is not even close to the benefit that the player gets out of it, so I should feel like I am getting some kind of discount when I give items to my NPCs. As it is, you cannot possibly hope to equip (M)&(B) with any really good equipment until you've gained a very high level and have all of the equipment you need for yourself, as it is just far too expensive. So far my NPCs just make do with my hand-me-downs and what halfway decent junk I find in battles.

The amount of money NPCs get could be tied to their level (a bad idea IMO, considering how slow they level), or it could be made an arbitrarily high rate. It hardly matters how wealthy your NPCs are, since they wont be sharing that wealth with you unless you have something to trade for it.

 

[Burnov]

You come as close to owning Manrid as you do a bunch of river pirate prisoners...

Furthermore. It's a simple matter of function over... whatever the hell your point is. I dunno advocacy for fair treatment of NPCs?

I want more inventory space. You'd think it'd be as simple as "Hey Manrid. Since I saved your worthless skin from becoming the grist between the vaegir and swadian war mill, think you could hold a few extra furs until we get to suno?"

If you want to use that kind of logic at least.

I simply think the buggers should carry my spoils of war. End of story.

They should be useful. To say the least. And if they serve no better purpose than a caddy for all my junk. Then so much the better.

 

[Mage246]

You come as close to owning Manrid as you do a bunch of river pirate prisoners...

Furthermore. It's a simple matter of function over... whatever the hell your point is. I dunno advocacy for fair treatment of NPCs?

I want more inventory space. You'd think it'd be as simple as "Hey Manrid. Since I saved your worthless skin from becoming the grist between the vaegir and swadian war mill, think you could hold a few extra furs until we get to suno?"

If you want to use that kind of logic at least.

I simply think the buggers should carry my spoils of war. End of story.

They should be useful. To say the least. And if they serve no better purpose than a caddy for all my junk. Then so much the better.

You are forgeting this is an RPG.... That usually means there is *some* sort of rationale for everything that happens in the game. It doesn't have to be realistic, but so far you are saying that a character in the game should act like a pack mule. If you really need a pack mule that bad, one should be added to the game. It doesn't make sense that you should be able to double your inventory size AND gain a fighter AND gain party skills all for a measly 50 gold (I'm using Borcha as an example).

 

[Burnov]

but so far you are saying that a character in the game should act like a pack mule

You're goddamned right he should. And I think sharing inventory space amongst members of your party is perfectly rational.

 

[Mage246]

You want a goddamn pack mule, I understand that. What you haven't explained is why an NPC who fights for you should be that pack mule, beyond the fact that he has extra space in his inventory. This only demonstrates that NPCs have too much inventory space, nothing else.

 

[Burnov]

So you've never carried anything for a companion at any point of time in your life. Ever?

If not, you've spent the majority of your life in front of your computer, or you're a selfish tit.

If you want a legitimate explanation there it is.

Furthermore. Manrid is an exception in this case, especially since he owes you everything. He owes you his life. Were it not for you in the game. He'd be a peasant footman that would inevitably be cut down and left for dead.

So, basically. I'd say Manrid is your *****. As far as other npc companions go, they should pull their weight if they want to roll with a crew like mine. As I've said. If they're not good for much else. At least they can carry a few extra furs from Khordan to Suno.

If you're running a merchant operation. It simply makes sense to have every able bodied party member able to carry something.

Furthermore. I fail to see how this illustrates any point insofar as NPCS having too much inventory space. Their inventory space is completely useless to anyone but themselves. The fact they essentially gouge you monetarily for carrying things eliminates any potential use the play may have of it.

 

[Ubberdorc]

Ok here comes the voice of reason.
I think they should trade items with you at a discounted rate at least.
Lets say I have a spare suit of scale mail, but Marnid only has 5 gold, I give it to him anyway because I want him to be safe. I take a loss of 75 gold. He has a horse I gave him, the sword I gave him, helmet, crossbow...etc. Surely he should be able to carry some ale without charging me. Maybe if they carried a negative balance when you give them stuff so that it would balance out when you need something back.

 

[Mage246]

That's exactly what I suggested Ubberdorc...

 

[Ubberdorc]

I know, but it looked like you two were about to come to blows..lol
What I would rather see, is when you have a spare horse you could use it to carry additional items (like the hyraldric cube in Diablo) or the pack mule in Dungeon Siege. That would give you reasons to buy additional horses. You could actually do some serious trading but if you loose a battle you could loose a horse full of loot.

 

[maw]

Burnov - laughed my ass off. you put it so succinctly.

look, when your on a team, you pull your weight for the whole team to succeed. if you're a hireling, you do what your boss says, or get sacked (or abandoned outside a city to be sodomized by khegir raiders). if i worked with people that nickled-and-dimed me like these NPC's, i'd be pissy to them when it was time to split up the loot... after all, i paid for their armor and weapons to keep them alive, the SOB's owe me.

if it wasn't for the fact that the NPC's didn't die - if they didn't contribute to movement, healing, and training - and if they weren't able to beef up to be madhouse tallywacking wargods after 40 hrs of play and 2 million xp's later - i'd never take them on. they use up a slot i can usually fit a few troops out of sync with my other boys and girls (a few swabians among vagier tree, or v-v).

if these NPC's were partners, then why the heck are they bleeding me? i always give them weapons and equipment at a loss so they'll be more effective (they never have enough money), but try to get some stored beef or fish to feed everyone and they get start nicking me, the opportunistic bastards.

nope - i'm all for 'free trade' between the player and NPC's.

to carry the other side of the argument, if its ok to suck me dry by spending my hard earned share on the NPC's stuff, whyn't they buy stuff and offer it to me? or better, if there is a 'wall' of realism, why bother to allow me to pick their weapons, equipment, and skills at all? after all, they are their own man (or woman... or whatever). hell, they can pay for some of the lodging and weekly pay also, while they're at it.

kinda along that line, i look at my little collection of misfits as a Company - a crew that gets weekly shares based on their skill level and contibutions... just a little thing to make me feel like i'm there in between bottles. (unfortunately, those sword sisters won't accept their 'bonus' - whats with that?). maw

 

[Burnov]

I've done some forum-delving and I notice other players have expressed similar well-thought sentiments about problems in equipping their comrades.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?t=4160&highlight=hero+npcs+borcha

1. Get rid of the silly barter screen. *rant start* Its ok guys I know you've got no money, that was obvious when I recruited you. I'll quite happily equip you out of my own pocket, but, if you try to charge me money for my own equipment when I decide I want something back, I'll just decapitate you instead! *end rant*

I completely agree. Here's another post that containts sensibly written criticism:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?t=4522&highlight=hero+npc

Following a recent discussion at :
http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?p=62654#62654
I've noticed M (Marnid) and B (Borcha) are usually used as party-skills carrier while the hero is the combat skill carrier.
This may seem like exploiting at first, but truth be told that advancement is slow in the game (and i *love it* this way), M and B are pretty useless in battle, and every point of skill counts in the game - Thus other way to spend skillpoints would a big waste of time.

The implications of the above :
M and B are known not to keep in formation like other troops and are usually the first friendly troops to die. (making any advancment of a combat skillpoint for them much much less useful than a non-combat skillpoint).

If a player puts most skillpoints on combat - on higher levels his power is massive.
If a player doesn't put most skillpoints on combat - on lower levels combat is living hell. (therefore the player is encouraged to put most of his skillpoints on combat)

(Edit: i'm the only one holding this opinion, thus this problem/suggestion is obselete, )
Personally I find it quite hard to believe someone like M and B who spend half their life in the battle field will have null skillpoints
I do not suggest M and B will be any better than other troops, but i want them not to as useless as peasants.
And also i find the difficulty to be set around the hero spending all his/her skillpoints on combat skills and the leadership skill, and on M and B spending all their points on party skills.
This in my opinion, encourages the player to recruit both M and B, be an uber combatant on later levels and M and B to be wimps.

Seems like I'm not the only one who seems to think that Manrid and Borcha should contribute in ways other than combative... Carrying FURS MAYBE!??!?! Haha. I think so.

See, right now I'm currently undergoing an annoying situation in which I have come across quite a haul of useful items for the group. Of which, a nordic shield, and some scale armor.

I already have a mail hauberk so that doesn't really help me as much. However. Manrid gets his ass kicked almost every fight. I'd like to give him something to replace his default cloth armor, but the funny thing is. He in effect gouges me in cost because even though the cloth armor is worth less than the scale is, he has a higher merchant skill...

So I'm basically paying him to give him something better and taking away and selling what is less effective.

-He- can't spend money. So really. By selling his old armor. I'm putting more funds in the party's coffers.

This is where it gets retarded.

I know some people may have doubts about people just giving him your cloth armor and then just taking it back, but really. The guy needs all the help he can get. Badly. I just don't think I should have to pay money to give him stuff. That's just stupid.

I'd like to see a savegame editor as an interim fix. At least then you can transfer things without having to endure the annoyance of things like that.

I don't suppose the built in edit mode can edit things like character inventories in-game can it?

 

[Ubberdorc]

I understand where you are coming from. What you can do without editing anything is just give him the scale armor, he will upgrade to it automatically. Then later when you have a better weapon that costs more than the cloth, make the swap then. I do agree they should carry stuff or like I said make it where the more horses you have then more you can carry.

Thomas

 

[maw]

ya know, the more i think about it, maybe a suggestion on how stuff is carried needs to be rethought by the programmer.

i would think inventory management shouldn't be determined by a skill slot, but rather by available horse, pack and maybe a wagon influence. each NPC and player have a pack (4 extra slots), each horse saddlebags (4 extra slots0 and maybe a wagon (10 extra slots). if ya lose a battle or if troops defect from you, you randomly lose a slot-holder and its contents.

maybe have a personal equipment screen for each NPC like the player, rather than a seperate full screen of 'slots' that would cover inventory management, which would also be easy to add the already mentioned idea of horses-for-bonus-slots. the inventory screen would show all the non-personal gear carried by the company, with a string of horse slots down at the bottom. personal gear (weapon, helm, armor, horse being ridden, etc) would be accessed by selecting the NPC or player to do a switch out of gear. (as if armg.. doesn't have enough ta do already).

i'll say this, tho... the perceived shortcomings always have a flexible work around... and the concept, graphics, and delivery of this game has made it #1 with me. as time goes on, it gets better and better, so as annoyed as i might get with storing excess and cheesey money-NPC issues, i'm not putting it down any time soon.