Helm effects and peripheral vision

[Jon Snow]

There's been a lot of discussion about restricting fields of view to account for loss of peripheral vision ("helm view") and things like that when wearing closed helms, which is a bit weird considering we don't really have any peripheral vision on account of playing on a computer monitor. What if instead helms, depending upon their restrictiveness, had an effect on Agility, maybe to a maximum of 2 or 3 points - most would have no penalty at all - to simulate losing some situational awareness, both visually and also from difficulty hearing as well as usual? Wouldn't that be simpler and easier from a programming point of view? I think armour is pretty well accounted for by encumbrance affecting the running speed, even if the accuracy of this is debatable, but there seems to be no downside to wearing a closed helm at the moment.

Also, does anyone else think it would be reasonable to simulate peripheral vision in the same way some flight sims do as an aid to the player, by showing arrows/whatever at the side of the screen where there are NPCs, within a particular field of view to the side of the player, and within a certain distance (say 5 metres)? I don't think these arrows should show any distinction between enemies or allies, as they usually do in other games. Obviously this ought to be toggleable.

 

[bobsters34]

No and no.

 

[Ingolifs]

I've always been for this, but the issue for me is what you do for third person.

 

[Jon Snow]

No and no.

Any particular reason, apart from that you feel like being irritating?

I've always been for this, but the issue for me is what you do for third person.

Just turn it off in third person. To be honest, I didn't even think about it, because I never play in third person.

 

[Tiberius]

I like both ideas, you could have the regular 3rd person but no arrows and the 1st person with the arrows and the "view" inside of the helmet. Of course, this should be in the options menu, because I will still want the arrows in 3rd person

 

[Jon Snow]

I like both ideas, you could have the regular 3rd person but no arrows and the 1st person with the arrows and the "view" inside of the helmet. Of course, this should be in the options menu, because I will still want the arrows in 3rd person

I think the idea of a helm view is interesting, but most people really overestimate how much space on the screen should be used up by the helm, it seems.

 

[Ingolifs]

I like both ideas, you could have the regular 3rd person but no arrows and the 1st person with the arrows and the "view" inside of the helmet. Of course, this should be in the options menu, because I will still want the arrows in 3rd person

I think the idea of a helm view is interesting, but most people really overestimate how much space on the screen should be used up by the helm, it seems.

Yeah. When wearing a helmet, you don't see two narrow slits comprising a field of view of 10 degrees, you see much more. I'm for having the helm appear only around the edges of the screen, blurry, to give the sense of protection and claustrophobia that the helmet would grant, while at the same time, not serving to annoy the player with an overly-restricted view.

 

[magnemoe]

I like both ideas, you could have the regular 3rd person but no arrows and the 1st person with the arrows and the "view" inside of the helmet. Of course, this should be in the options menu, because I will still want the arrows in 3rd person

Please no, that would make 3’Th person pretty useless for me, switch between lance or sword and bow all the time and love that I can use a bow from 3’Th person. Oblivion and Morrowind was useless in 3’Th person because your head was in the way. If was good for close combat but if you wanted to switch to ranged you had to go first person.

Problem is that your screen already restricts your side vision more than a helmet would do, a helmet would mostly block you from seeing up and down who is less important.
Only good thing about a helmet vision is that it would be less work for the graphic card.

 

[Jon Snow]

I like both ideas, you could have the regular 3rd person but no arrows and the 1st person with the arrows and the "view" inside of the helmet. Of course, this should be in the options menu, because I will still want the arrows in 3rd person

Please no, that would make 3’Th person pretty useless for me, switch between lance or sword and bow all the time and love that I can use a bow from 3’Th person. Oblivion and Morrowind was useless in 3’Th person because your head was in the way. If was good for close combat but if you wanted to switch to ranged you had to go first person.

Problem is that your screen already restricts your side vision more than a helmet would do, a helmet would mostly block you from seeing up and down who is less important.
Only good thing about a helmet vision is that it would be less work for the graphic card.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at here. How would some (toggleable) arrows at the side of the screen that are only on in 1st person ruin 3rd person for you? Or a slight darkening at the top and bottom of 1st person view only, and only when you're wearing the great helm? Maybe you should read the post again?

Anyway, what do people think about the agility penalty for restrictive helms instead of the helm view? I'm quite curious about that. 

 

[Gregarion Roseby]

I'm for an agility penalty for wearing any heavy armor. I wouldn't mind seeing a helm view, if the option was able to be turned on and off. Sometimes it would be nice, and sometimes it would be annoying. Best to have an option.

 

[Jon Snow]

I agree, options are always good. Especially if a view for the thick/reinforced bascinet model was introduced, that would be a bit annoying I'd guess. I think the agility penalty for any heavy with a bit less speed penalty is probably better than the speed penalty alone that we have at the moment.

 

[magnemoe]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at here. How would some (toggleable) arrows at the side of the screen that are only on in 1st person ruin 3rd person for you? Or a slight darkening at the top and bottom of 1st person view only, and only when you're wearing the great helm? Maybe you should read the post again?

Anyway, what do people think about the agility penalty for restrictive helms instead of the helm view? I'm quite curious about that. 

No that I’m saying that reducing the ability to use ranged weapons from 3’th person view would ruin 3’th person view if you are a horse archer like me and switch between lance and bow depending on situation.

 

[Luthius]

I don't think i like the agility penalty as strength is the requirement for heavy armour but this would make agility a requirement as well because you'd then need more agility to achieve your horse riding/weapon master skills. I'm assuming that a reduction in agility would also cause a temporary reduction of all agility based stats in line with the new agility score. Afraid I don't like it as agility is already taken into account for athletics and riding and if a horse can take the weight then theres no reason why you shouldn't be able to ride heavily laden with a restrictive helm.

Having a restricted view around the screen may work (in fact I'm sure there used to be at some point long ago - but i can't remember for sure) although i generally prefer playing in 3rd person mode as i just tend to find it more fun (and it gives a sense of peripheral vision )

 

[Jon Snow]

No that I’m saying that reducing the ability to use ranged weapons from 3’th person view would ruin 3’th person view if you are a horse archer like me and switch between lance and bow depending on situation.

Where did anyone suggest that?  What has this got to do with reducing the ability to use ranged weapons from 3rd person view? If you don't like the agility penalty, don't use the helms that have the penalty. There's probably only two that would incur the penalty, anyway, the great-helm and maybe the thick/reinforced bascinet. All of the other suggestions I've made have nothing to do with ranged weapons, and the agility penalty would affect both 1st and 3rd person, anyway, so I don't understand why you're specifying 3rd person, either.
Oh, sorry to nitpick, aswell (I can't help it, I'm sorry) but the English language is weird, and for some reason doesn't use a uniform system for indicating the precedence of something, so it goes 1st, 2nd, 3rd, then 4th, 5th etc., rather than simply 1th 2th, 3th, etc. But then I haven't studied any languages that DO include a uniform system for that. I know English probably isn't your first language, I thought I'd just point it out.
I think there ought to be a slight penalty for a few helms, though. Try something for me - put your hands over your cheeks so that your fingers are resting to either side of your eyes (that implies the cheeks on your face, people - think The Scream by Edvard Munch, but closer to your eyes, like a helm would be), and take them away again. If you don't notice a difference in peripheral vision, you're probably suffering from tunnel vision - I was surprised how much difference it made myself.

I don't think i like the agility penalty as strength is the requirement for heavy armour but this would make agility a requirement as well because you'd then need more agility to achieve your horse riding/weapon master skills. I'm assuming that a reduction in agility would also cause a temporary reduction of all agility based stats in line with the new agility score. Afraid I don't like it as agility is already taken into account for athletics and riding and if a horse can take the weight then theres no reason why you shouldn't be able to ride heavily laden with a restrictive helm.

Having a restricted view around the screen may work (in fact I'm sure there used to be at some point long ago - but i can't remember for sure) although i generally prefer playing in 3rd person mode as i just tend to find it more fun (and it gives a sense of peripheral vision )

Well, the effect of heavy armour is to reduce your personal agility, rather than simply to reduce the speed you can run at, and the effect of armour on how quick you can run is quite exaggerated on this game. It WOULD be sensible to remove the penalty for horseback riding, though, as your personal agility is hardly the point when you're on horseback. I'd suggest that it probably IS harder to ride wearing a helm, with no peripheral vision, but then, that would only really apply if the horse-riding skill had somethng to do with your ability to stay on the horse. It hardly matters to the horse in terms of the horse's agility whether you can see or not. 
I do think it's a bit weird when people say they don't like something because it makes their life more difficult, especially when it's from the perspective of someone who's a heavy cavalry player - playing as a heavily-armoured rider is piss-easy anyway, it's not like you couldn't use the extra challenge. 

 

[Maan]

I'd like that, perhaps as an option. And yes, helms don't reduce vision that much as most people think.
Btw, in M&B a Guard Helm (open faced) has just a little lower armor stat than a full closed helm, so this wouldn't be much of a penalty...

 

[Luthius]

I do think it's a bit weird when people say they don't like something because it makes their life more difficult, especially when it's from the perspective of someone who's a heavy cavalry player - playing as a heavily-armoured rider is piss-easy anyway, it's not like you couldn't use the extra challenge. 

My problem isn't with any added difficulty (not sure if this comment was in relation to me or not ), it's with the extra annoyance. I like the simplicity of knowing that i need xx strength to use that and xx agility to use this. It's quite annoying when certain things require a bit more of one or the other to be used right. This is different from a generic 30 str and 15 agi for a certain sword, it's more like you need 30 str but your agility takes a -10 hit on equip. On some games this does kind of work, on M&B where stats and skills are not to easy to come by and are very dependent for other skills i'd find it annoying. Also having an agility penalty wouldn't actually do anything( so you'd drag all other stats to suit, because nothing is directly based upon it. Riding skill yeah, but once you have 5 it wouldn't matter if your agility was 2.

I'd like that, perhaps as an option. And yes, helms don't reduce vision that much as most people think.
Btw, in M&B a Guard Helm (open faced) has just a little lower armor stat than a full closed helm, so this wouldn't be much of a penalty...

I've never worn a proper closed helm but I've work a gas mask as they restrict vision significantly.

 

[Jon Snow]

My problem isn't with any added difficulty (not sure if this comment was in relation to me or not ), it's with the extra annoyance. I like the simplicity of knowing that i need xx strength to use that and xx agility to use this. It's quite annoying when certain things require a bit more of one or the other to be used right. This is different from a generic 30 str and 15 agi for a certain sword, it's more like you need 30 str but your agility takes a -10 hit on equip. On some games this does kind of work, on M&B where stats and skills are not to easy to come by and are very dependent for other skills i'd find it annoying. Also having an agility penalty wouldn't actually do anything( so you'd drag all other stats to suit, because nothing is directly based upon it. Riding skill yeah, but once you have 5 it wouldn't matter if your agility was 2.

I do see what you mean in terms of added confusion, can't really think of a way around that. Added agility increases weapon speed and running speed, actually, I believe, that was more what I was thinking about, rather than the skills. Hard to run as quickly as you might be able to or be as sure of yourself in combat if you can't see the ground or your opponents as well as you might.

 

[Luthius]

I do see what you mean in terms of added confusion, can't really think of a way around that. Added agility increases weapon speed and running speed, actually, I believe, that was more what I was thinking about, rather than the skills. Hard to run as quickly as you might be able to or be as sure of yourself in combat if you can't see the ground or your opponents as well as you might.

I forgot all about this Thats a fair point!

 

[LokiGodOfFire]

it is a good suggestion for 1st person. and if you wear a helmet covering your ears (chaincoif aswell due to the leather worn under it) it should dampen the sounds you hear a bit.

3rd person is a bigger problem and im not sure in what way there could be effects

 

[Sephran]

Add in an option for realism just like saving before quitting, before completing the new character. No third person, and can't be enabled with that character ingame. No cheating anymore