Height difference between shortest female and tallest male

KSHMR

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Good stuff! Thanks for the information @NIN3

So I am assuming the smallest female from previous versions will be patched in the next patch?
 

SondiRWolf

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Good thing that the kicks are being worked on. I find it really annoying that you can be the best blocker in the world but a kick slash can just debunk all of that and you are also forced to S all the time. And about that small/tall topic, i dont think it really matters,i think it's fairly balanced. Ye, you get longer reach as a taller character but many people seem to forget that smaller characters gets an advantage when it comes to camera orientation. What i mean by that if you drag your mouse too far when trying to block upwards for example your character will get in the way to see your enemies incoming attacks/animations and when your character is bigger it will use more of the screen. I also think a taller person is easier to predict when it comes to attack directions and such, because more pixels = more information/clearer animations.
 
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Oakenlix

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I think server-based height restriction might be a problem causing inconsistent player experience with their same character.
Like if I get used to one height and then another server forces me to play with a different one, it'd feel weird.
 

Aprikosenmann

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We want to keep kick-slashs possible, as I mentioned. But they are way too frequent right now, in how often they are used and how easy it is to pull them off. Even I can constantly do it :grin:

We are thinking of them more of a risky thing to throw in a duel, which should be surprising if it happens. Right now people basically dance around the possibility of them all the time (in duels).

Edit: Let's not go to far off topic please (also my fault)
At first thank you for the great communication!

I am somewhat deep into the dueling meta and would like to share my opinion.
I like the new kick. Mainly it is used offensive now, opposing to warband where it mainly was used defensive.
It ads so much more relevance to good movement.
But it is fair to say that kicks are OP, just look how often they are used.

Offensive kicks in Duels:
Currently in "high skill dueling" the kick almost never hits. Our movement got good enough. However there are certain feints which encourage the enemy to walk into kick range. He can decide wether he wants to risk being kicked or to block it from a harder angle. Kinda cool mechanic that increases the skill cap.

->kicks are fine in high skill dueling
->kicks are fine in low/medium skill dueling (not used)
->kicks are very unfair in a good player vs bad player matchup. However nothing is fair in a good vs bad duel. Good players always have feints which are unblockable for the bad player.

Dueling requires 2 essential defensive mechanics instead of only 1 in warband. (blocking, avoiding kicks)

Offensive kicks in Skirmish:
In Skirmish this is a different story. Heavier armors and heavy shields slow the characters down. Kicks are easier to hit.
-2 vs 1 fights are not winnable if the outnumbering group uses kicks.
-Crossbow and Cav players have very big struggle to dodge kicks. Maybe fair that they are no melee monsters, but very unsatisfying for them. Reduced damage/swing speed already is a good punishment.

Defensive kicks in Duels:
Defensive kicks are almost perfect. Very hard to execute but it's possible to use them consistent but only in the right spots. (unlike chambers: Very hard to execute, impossible to use consistent)
They are so hard to execute because you have to open your block and then get the slash timing correct if you hit, but block if you miss.
Defensive kicks will be impossible to use consistent even if you slightly nerf kicks.

Defensive kicks in Skirmish:
Defensive kicks are used with Throwables or with Crossbow. low risk, high reward. If players hold crossbow or throwables in the melee you know exactly what he will do. But how to counter it? Sadly you cannot jump over it. It's very disgusting to deal with it if done right.
Defensive kicks, while holding shields, are quite similar to warband. Balanced. Kick nerfs might remove them.

TL;DR
Offensive kicks are very strong. In Duel you can deal with them in Skirmish they are a big problem.
Defensive kicks are kinda fine, since you will get hit if you miss. However the combination with throwables and crossbows might be too strong.
Would be great to find a way to only nerf the offensive ones while not removing them. Offensive kicking is a nice addition to combat in general.

Proposal:
-give a decent timing where you can jump over kicks
-If you anticipate getting kicked offensive grant a way to counter it. Maybe kickchambering, jumping might be valid aswell
-punish missed kicks slightly, maybe increase the time where you cannot move very slighty
-do not punish kicks that hit. (even though its kinda easy once you know how, like only 2% of players can slash after hit)
 
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Younes123

Master Knight
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Not sure what you mean Aprik, trying to avoid kicks has always been a thing in warband by not having linear or predictable movement during combat. I don't know how you think in warband you never had to think about avoiding kicks.
 

Aprikosenmann

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Not sure what you mean Aprik, trying to avoid kicks has always been a thing in warband by not having linear or predictable movement during combat. I don't know how you think in warband you never had to think about avoiding kicks.
Im talking about offensive kicks. It's just a fact that they were not a big thing. Only used against people that stand still or with the worst movement ever. In Bannerlord it is a very difficult mechanic to avoid being kicked while blocking, especially when feinting starts. In Warband it was like: Dont walk like a retard and you are fine.

But honestly the comparision to Warband is kinda not relevant at all. We want to make BL good. I better dont even dare mentioning Warband. This small sidefact will drag the conversation into irrelevance.
 

Younes123

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Im talking about offensive kicks. It's just a fact that they were not a big thing. Only used against people that stand still or with the worst movement ever. In Bannerlord it is a very difficult mechanic to avoid being kicked while blocking, especially when feinting starts. In Warband it was like: Dont walk like a retard and you are fine.

But honestly the comparision to Warband is kinda not relevant at all. We want to make BL good. I better dont even dare mentioning Warband. This small sidefact will drag the conversation into irrelevance.
It's fine to compare warband. It's a common thing to always improve upon the good things of your previous title.

Just wondering do you believe kicks should be an offensive or defensive mechanic?
 

Jufasto

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Hey guys, I heard you talking about kicking mechanic in game :grin: Well, I have 4 videos of kicking, literally abusing the **** out of kick mechanic every single second :grin: Devs definitely should see my videos before they do anything to kick mechanic. Let them decide themselves :grin:




 

KSHMR

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A good way to make kicks less OP is also to increase the animation time amount for kick animation (just increase it by A LITTLE, NOT TOO MUCH)))

Also, sometimes when I kick my attack follows up really slow as if the weapon has slower speed and other times it hits directly after the kick? Is this random or just timing?
 

Jufasto

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If you don't hold it before you kick it doesn't hit with slower weps like legionar mace etc. but as you said with faster weps you don't have to hold your wep to hit after kick :grin:
 

Aprikosenmann

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Hey guys, I heard you talking about kicking mechanic in game :grin: Well, I have 4 videos of kicking, literally abusing the **** out of kick mechanic every single second :grin: Devs definitely should see my videos before they do anything to kick mechanic. Let them decide themselves :grin:




The problem is not that those kills work, the problem is that the counterplay is too hard. And that it even works with bows is disgusting.
 

KSHMR

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i will try to record to show you what I mean another time. You didnt understand what I mean. Its like I perfectly execute a kick, because I have kind of mastered it after few hundred hours of practise, but tbh it is not 100% consistent. So I would say that 1/10 or maybe 2/10 its too slow and doesnt hit, what is the reason,.
 

Biyonik

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i will try to record to show you what I mean another time. You didnt understand what I mean. Its like I perfectly execute a kick, because I have kind of mastered it after few hundred hours of practise, but tbh it is not 100% consistent. So I would say that 1/10 or maybe 2/10 its too slow and doesnt hit, what is the reason,.
probably incorrect stances
 

Mabons

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I don't really see how increasing the kick animation helps, it just makes it harder for the people who already struggle to do it correctly?

Just disabling the ability to kick while someone has a ranged weapon out would prevent the abuse @Jufasto is showing in his video. As for the melee weapons, the consistency of kick slashing has to be increased while making kicks themselves more difficult to land in a fight. It feels like they reach further than they did in Warband and they connect instantly, which makes it easier to land them. Especially when using them offensively it's just a little too oppressive and easy to land.
 

Jufasto

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The problem is not that those kills work, the problem is that the counterplay is too hard. And that it even works with bows is disgusting.
Yeah, I absolutely agree with you :grin: But, i've been thinking about "Why counterplay is too hard?" and it's because we have played so much Warband and as experienced players we have so common walking/step pattern so it's easier to kick experienced players than kicking noobs/new players. You cannot guess where new players are going to step :grin: So i have changed my foot step gaming after thinking about that and now i am avoiding most of the kicks! Well, still because of my old habits sometimes i get kicked aswell :p