Height difference between shortest female and tallest male

AxiosXiphos

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If your sword reaches 2cm further but your chest also reaches out 2cm further there might be no effect.
But even if there are differences, it's just a decision you have to make as a Player. It's like deciding which sword to use in Singleplayer. Damage, Length, Speed... in some situation it will be good, in others bad.
Don't get us wrong - it's not a big deal. Like if TW turned round and said "sorry we don't want to change it"; then I wouldn't care. But because it is not easily changed and can't be changed midgame I don't personally feel it should be included in a game that wants itself to be taken seriously as a competitive multiplayer platform.
 

Mabons

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But we will not get rid of the differences between heights.
Nobody is asking for this, as you say this is useful for future mods and even in the case of events and such for those who want some randomness to the uniformity. I can imagine NW mod will want Grenadier Regiments to be tall bois while the Skirmishers are small nippy dudes.

What we are asking for is for the sake of competitiveness to have a server option that forces everyone into the default "medium" height.
 

AxiosXiphos

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Nobody is asking for this, as you say this is useful for future mods and even in the case of events and such for those who want some randomness to the uniformity. I can imagine NW mod will want Grenadier Regiments to be tall bois while the Skirmishers are small nippy dudes.

What we are asking for is for the sake of competitiveness to have a server option that forces everyone into the default "medium" height.
+1

Server option if possible would be perfect agreed. To be fair I think he was just trying to cover his bases with the statement above; to make it clear in case someone asks for it just to be cosmetic and not mechanically tied into the game.

If a server option isn't possible I'd prefer it just defaults to mid-height for everyone for MP.
 

NIN3

Developer
NW
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I know this opinion might be quite unpopular here but I am convinced that many people would not want this customization taken away from them. But I totally see your points that this will lead to some sort of meta height for competitive games, especially since we didn't really balance those 2 sides against each other (also for good reasons).

I really think the middle ground with it being a server option is a great idea and I’ll bring it up in the next mp meeting.

Edit: By the way, whats the consensus of the best height atm? As tiny as possible?
 

AxiosXiphos

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I know this opinion might be quite unpopular here but I am convinced that many people would not want this customization taken away from them. But I totally see your points that this will lead to some sort of meta height for competitive games, especially since we didn't really balance those 2 sides against each other (also for good reasons).

I really think the middle ground with it being a server option is a great idea and I’ll bring it up in the next mp meeting.

Edit: By the way, whats the consensus of the best height atm? As tiny as possible?
I see your point too. It's far far far away from a deal breaker for me but nice to have the option certainly! :grin: A server option would be great; thank you.

Ironically I actually end up playing around average height to try and avoid suffering any penalty from height in either direction; but that's because I play every class at least some of the time... if you are an archer main I'd 100% say they would want to play the smallest hitbox possible... Melee combat can vary but I don't think being a giant is ever worth it. The shield coverage becomes too much of an issue. There is definitely *some* melee advantage from being much taller then the enemy in theory (due to the head hit box) but largely this is negligible compared to being a much larger target for ranged.
 

Younes123

Master Knight
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I know this opinion might be quite unpopular here but I am convinced that many people would not want this customization taken away from them. But I totally see your points that this will lead to some sort of meta height for competitive games, especially since we didn't really balance those 2 sides against each other (also for good reasons).

I really think the middle ground with it being a server option is a great idea and I’ll bring it up in the next mp meeting.

Edit: By the way, whats the consensus of the best height atm? As tiny as possible?
Thank you, i think its great to let server choose down the option. It might end up giving a proper opinion from the playerbase down the line.

Like axios said, i'm pretty sure being tiny is the biggest advantage in the game currently. But i don't think we should go for tiny men if its a server option. I would say average height as it is in the current slider.
 

AxiosXiphos

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Thank you, i think its great to let server choose down the option. It might end up giving a proper opinion from the playerbase down the line.

Like axios said, i'm pretty sure being tiny is the biggest advantage in the game currently. But i don't think we should go for tiny men if its a server option. I would say average height as it is in the current slider.
Oh yeah agreed. The default should be what the average height is right now; that's about perfect for hitbox scaling. Pretty sure NIN3 didn't mean the default would be the smallest; but just to be absolutely clear.
 

Biyonik

Veteran
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I know this opinion might be quite unpopular here but I am convinced that many people would not want this customization taken away from them. But I totally see your points that this will lead to some sort of meta height for competitive games, especially since we didn't really balance those 2 sides against each other (also for good reasons).

I really think the middle ground with it being a server option is a great idea and I’ll bring it up in the next mp meeting.

Edit: By the way, whats the consensus of the best height atm? As tiny as possible?
For me and probably most people currently playing its the tallest because of added reach and kicking range, but im not sure if kicking range is actually affected, it would be nice if you could confirm/debunk it
 

dijiTurk

Knight
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I know this opinion might be quite unpopular here but I am convinced that many people would not want this customization taken away from them. But I totally see your points that this will lead to some sort of meta height for competitive games, especially since we didn't really balance those 2 sides against each other (also for good reasons).

I really think the middle ground with it being a server option is a great idea and I’ll bring it up in the next mp meeting.

Edit: By the way, whats the consensus of the best height atm? As tiny as possible?
I dont believe that different height variations affect the match while their hitboxes also totally different sized.. But, please make that server option just for competitive ranked matches. I dont even want to see that option running at offical servers desgined for unranked matches. I want see players that play their fully custumized characters on the field.
 
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NIN3

Developer
NW
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The kick reach is influenced by your character height, yes. Since your legs are longer. Not by much though

Just to throw that in, we will adjust the kicks in the next combat update.
Probably with increasing the duration of the kick animation, which proved in internal tests to make kick-slashs a lot less viable, but still possible. This is obviously not set in stone yet.
 

Younes123

Master Knight
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The kick reach is influenced by your character height, yes. Since your legs are longer. Not by much though

Just to throw that in, we will adjust the kicks in the next combat update.
Probably with increasing the duration of the kick animation, which proved in internal tests to make kick-slashs a lot less viable, but still possible. This is obviously not set in stone yet.
Should we be able to kick slash or not? i don't know what the point of view is of the team right now.
 

VVyrd

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Instead of forcefully clamping sizes as they are right now (Where the difference between minimum height and maximum height is x0.25? that of SP, you can look it in the files), it should be a configurable parameter on a per server-basis, where if the maximum difference is x0 everyone would be the same height, and if it is x1 the maximum difference is that of vanilla's SP. Official servers should have it at x0 by default.

You could allow even more than just x1, so that you would have tiny or huge characters if that's your server's intention, without needing the players to change their characters at all. Although this would feel a bit weird.
 
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AxiosXiphos

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Should we be able to kick slash or not? i don't know what the point of view is of the team right now.
I'm not a fan personally; I feel the defending player should always have the opportunity to respond. However they did get kicked in the first place so.... dunno.

I prefer shield bashes / kicks being ways to reset momentum / finish someone off ( in fact I think they should do more damage then they currently do) I don't like them being an excuse to get around actually attacking/defending properly.
 

NIN3

Developer
NW
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Should we be able to kick slash or not? i don't know what the point of view is of the team right now.
We want to keep kick-slashs possible, as I mentioned. But they are way too frequent right now, in how often they are used and how easy it is to pull them off. Even I can constantly do it :grin:

We are thinking of them more of a risky thing to throw in a duel, which should be surprising if it happens. Right now people basically dance around the possibility of them all the time (in duels).

Edit: Let's not go to far off topic please (also my fault)
 

Younes123

Master Knight
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We want to keep kick-slashs possible, as I mentioned. But they are way too frequent right now, in how often they are used and how easy it is to pull them off. Even I can constantly do it :grin:

We are thinking of them more of a risky thing to throw in a duel, which should be surprising if it happens. Right now people basically dance around the possibility of them all the time (in duels).

Edit: Let's not go to far off topic please (also my fault)
But isn't being able to kick someone already a very risky move? You said you would increase the kick animation duration which in turn will make players exposed from the flanks when done in a duel. If with that you include the fact the attacks are harder to pull, don't you think it might be a bit too hard?
 

AxiosXiphos

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Edit: Let's not go to far off topic please (also my fault)
Well.. problem is we have kind of finished the topic haha. We said we didn't like variance in height for MP. You said you will recommend it be a server setting... we got what we wanted for the moment... so not much more to talk about on that front. I guess we could argue if it should be on for ranked servers... but until the setting actually exists it's not worth worrying about.
 

Mabons

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Edit: By the way, whats the consensus of the best height atm? As tiny as possible?
It depends on what you play, as I understand archer players want a smaller size for a smaller hitbox in archer duels, infantry players want to be big so they can kick easier and reach people, and I'm not sure what cav players do but I'm not sure it matters too much for them either(I assume they go small to make it harder to shoot them off the horse).

Edit: Let's not go to far off topic please (also my fault)
As Axious said we are finished here but this conversation was insightful. Please carry on telling us things like this in the sticky thread!
 

KSHMR

Regular
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@NIN3

As far as kicking goes, I think it would be a great idea indeed to keep the possibility of kick-slashing, but just making it harder to pull off.

For height, I think having different height is an amazing thing because it allows for more customization of playstyle. Do I want to be a small target with less kill potential or do I want to be tall and take that risk?

In general there are a couple of things that need to be clarified so that people know what they are choosing, since the exact benefits are not knows of a taller character.

- How much bigger is the hitbox? (%of height compared to average char?) Perhaps you can add a ''height'' meter bar in the character customization bar so that people can choose exactly how tall they want their character to be. (160 for women minimum and 185 for men?)
- How much mrore reach, but is hard to measure I guess?
- Does this reach apply to both kicks and swings?
- Reach on horseback?
- Easier to shoot because looking from higher?

Its kind of vague at this moment, so I definitely suggest someone to dig into this and make exact conclusions on what is going on. Its really weird because nobody knows atm
 

NIN3

Developer
NW
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@NIN3
- How much bigger is the hitbox? (%of height compared to average char?) Perhaps you can add a ''height'' meter bar in the character customization bar so that people can choose exactly how tall they want their character to be. (160 for women minimum and 185 for men?)
Well the hitbox is only scaled upwards obviously by however much taller your char is. Actually only the hitbox used for combat is getting taller, the one for traversing the environment stays the same (so you can't suddenly crouch through a small hole, cause you are smaller). I am not sure how much an indication would help tbh.
@NIN3
- How much mrore reach, but is hard to measure I guess?
It really depends on the attack, if they are more reliant on your arm it's more. But as I mentioned above, it gives you like 1-3cm at most.
@NIN3
- Does this reach apply to both kicks and swings?
Yes.
@NIN3
- Reach on horseback?
Your reach is higher, but you are also sitting higher up, since your torso is bigger. I don't think it affects you alot, if stabbing downwards, if at all. But it might be against other cav.
@NIN3
- Easier to shoot because looking from higher?
Yes. But you are also an easier target :grin: