Height difference between shortest female and tallest male

dijiTurk

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I think height difference has no place in multiplayer
Why do you limit players with one height standart?! Just wait for developers to add some - and + features AND ALSO better hit boxes at dif--variations. Please leave dealing with the widely extended height variations. This limits players.

Or

Lets just have:

1 map
1 mode
1 type with class systems
1 ….
..
.
 
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Fietta

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Yeah, I've still got the shortest male height size from the beta, which is quite nice considering it's the exact same height as the current shortest woman - I just feel sorry for people who play the current shortest male, it's atleast a good half head taller than the females.
 

FearSpear

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eg. small character have a small reach, but small hitboxes also, and suffers a little slow down because of short legs, and have smaller strenght to hit, draw etc.
medium characters have avarage reach, avarage hitboxes and strenght, but are fastest (medium medium and a little taller ones)
biggest characters suffers most for speed, and are biggest dummies to hit, but have greater strenght and as it is very long reach.
 

azakhi

Server Developer
Developer
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I've done alot of testing and the reach is same for all sizes. Is there no official TW Statement regarding the impact of character size???

What triggers me are those super small child models from the beta. They have a size which is unavailable for all of us.

My character is the smallest woman btw:
There was a fix that I have been told would solve this. I will talk with my coworker again. It seems people that had changed the height before the fix stayed the same.
 

KSHMR

Regular
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great. would sitll be nice to see some evidence as far as advantages and disadvantages of height go
 

NIN3

Developer
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So the height difference does give the character slight advantages/disadvantages.

If you are smaller your hitbox is smaller, when you are taller your arms are longer so you have slightly more reach, but your hitbox is bigger. Also we noticed that in tall vs small fights, there is a lot more headshots achieved by the taller characters (player and AI a like) which makes sense I guess.

We can have an argument to disable different heights for chars in multiplayer, but with the difference being so slight we thought it wouldn't be much of an issue.
But we will not get rid of the differences between heights. Not only since it makes sense, but also since the base of the system makes it really solid. Meaning that if players were to add huge skeletons, or to edit the current ones (to be the size of giants for example) which is already happening, it makes sure that those new characters tie into the combat system correctly without much extra work.
 

AxiosXiphos

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So the height difference does give the character slight advantages/disadvantages.

If you are smaller your hitbox is smaller, when you are taller your arms are longer so you have slightly more reach, but your hitbox is bigger. Also we noticed that in tall vs small fights, there is a lot more headshots achieved by the taller characters (player and AI a like) which makes sense I guess.

We can have an argument to disable different heights for chars in multiplayer, but with the difference being so slight we thought it wouldn't be much of an issue.
But we will not get rid of the differences between heights. Not only since it makes sense, but also since the base of the system makes it really solid. Meaning that if players were to add huge skeletons, or to edit the current ones (to be the size of giants for example) which is already happening, it makes sure that those new characters tie into the combat system correctly without much extra work.
Hey man thanks for this comment! We always appreciate hearing TW thoughts on the topic we are discussing; brings it home on your decision making!

Now I don't think anyone wants the system to be scrapped - it's mod potential and use for SP is very clear! This was clearly lacking in Warband and I love the fact it's now possible (Mod dev's will love you too). No one is against that - I think we just largely feel it skews the competitive multiplayer balance a little. There's already so much you guys need to factor in to get the MP balance ready for the competitive direction you are pushing it - I feel adding height into the mix is just throwing an extra hurdle in the way for no real benefit.

Granted it doesn't make much difference as you say but every little counts. I also think we might find a world where there are meta-heights for high level competitive play. Tiny archers and giant cavalry riders or etc etc... it just doesn't seem like a path you want to go down; the sketchy online article titles write themselves. Establishing a set height for Mp characters seems like it would be easier on everyone - and easier to balance weapon lengths, shield coverage etc going forwards.
 
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Kentucky James VII

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Duke
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So the height difference does give the character slight advantages/disadvantages.

If you are smaller your hitbox is smaller, when you are taller your arms are longer so you have slightly more reach, but your hitbox is bigger. Also we noticed that in tall vs small fights, there is a lot more headshots achieved by the taller characters (player and AI a like) which makes sense I guess.
Why isn't this a massive concern right now in multiplayer? If different heights give different advantages then you have to change your avatar every time you want to take full advantage of a class. How is this good design?
 

Younes123

Master Knight
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Why isn't this a massive concern right now in multiplayer? If different heights give different advantages then you have to change your avatar every time you want to take full advantage of a class. How is this good design?
I think everyone is going to go middle height most likely honestly. No point in going very small or very big unless you intend on going as an archer only or infantry only during your entiere game. Which makes the class system complete garbage again in this situation.
 

AxiosXiphos

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I think everyone is going to go middle height most likely honestly. No point in going very small or very big unless you intend on going as an archer only or infantry only during your entiere game. Which makes the class system complete garbage again in this situation.
I don't think you can blame this particular issue on the class system Younes. This height issue would be exactly the same if it was placed into warband. I don't believe there should be a height-based meta regardless of how you select your equipment.

Let's try not to muddy the water on this and stay focused; the variable height system while noval and fun just isn't functional for a game pushing for a MP competitive direction. Keep the system exactly as it stands just force everyone in MP to the same height; whichever height is most suitable for the shield coverage / hit box size you envisioned.

Same situation for weight (when/if that gets added).
 

Virthuss

Recruit
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Since tall people swing reach further, it means the edge of the blade moves faster, hence does it mean their damages are increased, even slightly?
Apologies if it's been asked before.
 

Younes123

Master Knight
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I don't think you can blame this particular issue on the class system Younes. This height issue would be exactly the same if it was placed into warband. I don't believe there should be a height-based meta regardless of how you select your equipment.

Let's try not to muddy the water on this and stay focused; the variable height system while noval and fun just isn't functional for a game pushing for a MP competitive direction. Keep the system exactly as it stands just force everyone in MP to the same height; whichever height is most suitable for the shield coverage / hit box size you envisioned.

Same situation for weight (when/if that gets added).
No i'm talking the class system and heights. It's obvious certain heights are more of an advantage for archer or for infantry.

If you were to take small height to be able to play archer all the time, you would be fine. But the class system is actively prohibiting you from taking archer all the time since you can not afford the class in a lot of cases. This wasn't an issue in warband with free equipment.
 

AxiosXiphos

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No i'm talking the class system and heights. It's obvious certain heights are more of an advantage for archer or for infantry.

If you were to take small height to be able to play archer all the time, you would be fine. But the class system is actively prohibiting you from taking archer all the time since you can not afford the class in a lot of cases. This wasn't an issue in warband with free equipment.
Hmmm okay I somewhat see your point - you are right there are odd occasions where you can't play an archer - though i think people who only play archers are scum anyway :wink:

I still think thats a discussion for another time though. The height issue is it's own thing we can argue about; I don't want to turn this into another class war. Like I think we are actually on the same side for once :lol:
 

Aprikosenmann

Regular
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I think everyone is going to go middle height most likely honestly. No point in going very small or very big unless you intend on going as an archer only or infantry only during your entiere game. Which makes the class system complete garbage again in this situation.
Let's not exaggerate. You can decide wether you want to have a smaller hitbox against archers or minor advantages (I cannot feel them) in melee. That's all. No matter which class you are. Sometimes you just want to see problems where there are none.
 

Younes123

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Let's not exaggerate. You can decide wether you want to have a smaller hitbox against archers or minor advantages (I cannot feel them) in melee. That's all. No matter which class you are. Sometimes you just want to see problems where there are none.
The difference between someone tall and someone small is very significant, you showed a screenshot of it yourself.

There is a difference in both, just because you can't feel them doesn't mean they don't exist.
 

Aprikosenmann

Regular
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The difference between someone tall and someone small is very significant, you showed a screenshot of it yourself.

There is a difference in both, just because you can't feel them doesn't mean they don't exist.
If your sword reaches 2cm further but your chest also reaches out 2cm further there might be no effect.
But even if there are differences, it's just a decision you have to make as a Player. It's like deciding which sword to use in Singleplayer. Damage, Length, Speed... in some situation it will be good, in others bad.