Heavy Inf

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Hairless

Hairless

Knight
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Heavy infantry will never be viable in throwing meta, and considering that throwing spears won't be gone in 1.6(throwing spears or javs instead of both) heavy inf will still be garbage. I don't believe simple speed buff will make it strong again, so here I go with a suggestion to revert it back to old heavy inf cost, which is 150. This way if someone wants triple spawn and nuke sticks they go for skirmishers, and if someone wants to play underpowered class that used to be core of the game when the game was actually enjoyable he will be able to do that. Right now every single Sturgia/Aserai/Battania and Empire are forced due to lack of balance between classes to go skirmishers no matter what(maybe sometimes u get Varyag due to 110 brigands allowing for that). Also that solution buffs Vlandia. AND CONSIDERING WE WERE PROMISED QUICK BALANCE CHANGING PATCHES IN CASE SOMETHING IS BROKEN AT BEGGINING OF BEAST 4, WE ACTUALLY COULD TEST SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN OVERALL IDEA THE GAME IS HEADING INTO RN. avrc pls. Also this would help Vlandia considering how weak it is rn.

So my suggestion is to lower heavy inf cost to 150 again at least on Beta branch. I could gather enough interested people to give it a proper test.
 
I'm out of clues how to balance inf anymore. People complainted about ranged/throwing meta, once it was gone, infantry was useless and people would go for 2-2-2 and range+lance meta regardless. Now throwing is back, again (or shall I say still?) ranged meta.

On the plus side: Once you had spent your three javs/throwing axes on heavy inf with heavy inf meta, they were gone for good. Yes, yes, you could pick them up, but meta was favoring engagements developing into team fights generally.
 
Hairless ✂ said:
unknown.png

Heavy infantry will never be viable in throwing meta, and considering that throwing spears won't be gone in 1.6(throwing spears or javs instead of both) heavy inf will still be garbage. I don't believe simple speed buff will make it strong again, so here I go with a suggestion to revert it back to old heavy inf cost, which is 150. This way if someone wants triple spawn and nuke sticks they go for skirmishers, and if someone wants to play underpowered class that used to be core of the game when the game was actually enjoyable he will be able to do that. Right now every single Sturgia/Aserai/Battania and Empire are forced due to lack of balance between classes to go skirmishers no matter what(maybe sometimes u get Varyag due to 110 brigands allowing for that). Also that solution buffs Vlandia. AND CONSIDERING WE WERE PROMISED QUICK BALANCE CHANGING PATCHES IN CASE SOMETHING IS BROKEN AT BEGGINING OF BEAST 4, WE ACTUALLY COULD TEST SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN OVERALL IDEA THE GAME IS HEADING INTO RN. avrc pls. Also this would help Vlandia considering how weak it is rn.

So my suggestion is to lower heavy inf cost to 150 again at least on Beta branch. I could gather enough interested people to give it a proper test.
Click to expand...
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
 
Last edited:
AVRC said:
Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs
Click to expand...
I'm still unsure about this working at all, considering that javelins are the Recruit's primary source of damage w/ the Pilum being their primary anti-cav option and the Brigand pretty much carrying Sturgia. I can kind of see it work with the Wildling since he's one of two medium infantry units in all of multiplayer and even then, i imagine a lot of things would need to be tweaked for throwing spears as a javelin replacement to work.

However, if Taleworlds is insistent on making throwing spears a javelin replacement, then perhaps it might be worth it for throwing knives/axes to be bundled with the spear? Ideally, a quiver of throwing weapons comparable to the Northern Throwing Axe would allow skirmisher units to still deal a respectable amount of damage on torso hits against peasant units, light archers and shock troops should they elect to pick a throwing spear.

And finally, I hope Taleworlds isn't planning on shortening the Ash Throwing Spear's melee range, due to it being Sturgia's primary method of killing cavalry units and Battania being a mostly anti-cavalry faction
 
Last edited:
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...
Are u excited for TI10?
 
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...
These sound good, though I would put more emphasis on straight-up heavy infantry buffs as they're hardly worth the cost even in a melee vs melee situation. I see that they are getting buffs but it's hard to tell in what way until the next information reveal.

Are you guys still planning on changing the armor vs. ranged formula? That's gotta be my biggest issue with them right now.
 
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the answer. Guess we will have to give it a test when 1.6 is finally out. But let's say after it's out, and the meta doesn't change but will remain in skirmishers spam, will you consider lowering cost of heavies to 150?
 
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/cav-speed-penalty-after-getting-dismounted.440478/ what about this bug? it's still exist
 
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...
Changes sound like a good step in the right direction.

Do you have any news if you will touch cav? NINE has shown some changes to WW-SS etc
 
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...
So you're now changing the equipment of certain classes dependent on which game-mode is being played. In itself this is a good effort to balance the game more, but why not just give players a lot more freedom with regard to equipment selection as we saw in Warband?

You know, doing that would probably make your life a lot less miserable because you will now be balancing the game for the coming year, possibly more.. You will be spending efforts on balancing for both Skirmish and Captain Mode, and what about battle when it is released, will you balance specifically for that too? You're making things unneccesary complicated in my opinion.
 
AVRC said:
Current changes that are being tested out (regarding the post, these are not the only changes obviously):
  • Skirmisher Throwing Spears replace default javs (Non-Captain Modes)
  • Throwing weapons don't deal bonus damage to shields.
  • Throwing Spears can't be picked up from corpses and will have some damage reductions.
  • Skirmishers have weaker melee capabilities
  • Heavy Inf has higher move speed and acceleration
  • Heavy Inf has more defensive and offensive capabilities
The plan is to not allow Skirmishers to melee as good as other infantry so that they are discouraged from giving up their Throwing Spears to Cavalry. Also reducing the over abundance of Throwing Spears as the round progresses, once a Throwing Spears deals damage it will be technically removed from the game.
Heavy Infantry will also be much more capable offensively and defensively to improve their overall combat effectiveness optionally in all areas depending on perks picked.

The reason we didn't send a small quick balance change is that there are quite a lot of changes on troops, also a significant amount of combat changes and they all work together. We want to see where the game settles after all these changes and then make adjustments depending on feedback.

We will share more details later on, we are finalizing the branch.
Click to expand...



Changes sounds really good(as a cav player) do you intend to make the throwing spears unable to use on horseback or only melee mode? These things are too strong on cav players who can throw it over shields or kill most horses with not much skill( even after the dmg will be reduced)

@Hairless changing gold to 150 would heavily nerf the gold bonus after a won round if you can always use 2 heavy inf instead of 2 light inf.
 
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