Hear the Casul Roar: We are sad!

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Moth_Queen

Recruit
Hello there...

I am a casul. There are 80% like me. Maybe more? Who knows.

And I am sad.

This game forces me to fight in a 6V6 skirmish mode, wich is available in litteraly every other competitive game out there. I didn't come here to have this as my main course. I came here for large-scale battles! And those are broken (siege) or unbalanced (captain)...

I am forced to fight not just better players in this 6V6 groundhog day... I am doomed to loose again and again versus absolute world champion clans. Some folks out there has more than 3000 hours in Warband alone! Imagine the insane skillgap... Placing a single hit on those dudes is already an achievement for me.

In Warband this was never a problem.

We casuls were hanging around in TDM/Siege doing our small part, while those who wanted more could try Duels or join a clan to fight in large-scale Battles. There was some form of balance and natural separation of common folk, who just wanted to enjoy the game on their level, and professional gamers, who were out there facing their match, instead of stomping newbs. The personal skill was also negated by numbers. You could always team up with buddies to finish off that one crazy spinning dude.

I never felt like **** for being a casul in Warband. I do feel like **** playing this game. And I don't like it.

And before you "GitGud" me, because I definetly see that one coming...

NO.

Casuls like me are 80% of the playerbase... Let that soak in. We do not have 3000 hours to spend in a single game, no matter how we love it. But we still want to play and have fun. Well, we did at the very beginning. Not so much anymore.

I won't give advices or suggestion here, I may not be the best person for that. I do not want to bash better players either just for having more spare time to play than I do. I just wanted to speak out as a casul peasant everyone seems to forget about.

And maybe make you all think on how to make this game shine like Warband did.

Thank you for your time.
 

Younes

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Handing out popcorn before the tryhards come

???

Also i feel you, the casual side has been a very obvious downgrade from warband.
 

Kleronomus

Recruit
Hear, hear! Let's not forget the plebs!

As another casual player, I agree wholeheartedly. Clans need their own lobbies and to stop preying upon the noobs and casuals. It really degrades the player base in the long run. (And it's been getting worse lately.)
 

AVRC

MP Dev
Sergeant at Arms
Hello there...

I am a casul. There are 80% like me. Maybe more? Who knows.

And I am sad.

This game forces me to fight in a 6V6 skirmish mode, wich is available in litteraly every other competitive game out there. I didn't come here to have this as my main course. I came here for large-scale battles! And those are broken (siege) or unbalanced (captain)...

I am forced to fight not just better players in this 6V6 groundhog day... I am doomed to loose again and again versus absolute world champion clans. Some folks out there has more than 3000 hours in Warband alone! Imagine the insane skillgap... Placing a single hit on those dudes is already an achievement for me.

In Warband this was never a problem.

We casuls were hanging around in TDM/Siege doing our small part, while those who wanted more could try Duels or join a clan to fight in large-scale Battles. There was some form of balance and natural separation of common folk, who just wanted to enjoy the game on their level, and professional gamers, who were out there facing their match, instead of stomping newbs. The personal skill was also negated by numbers. You could always team up with buddies to finish off that one crazy spinning dude.

I never felt like **** for being a casul in Warband. I do feel like **** playing this game. And I don't like it.

And before you "GitGud" me, because I definetly see that one coming...

NO.

Casuls like me are 80% of the playerbase... Let that soak in. We do not have 3000 hours to spend in a single game, no matter how we love it. But we still want to play and have fun. Well, we did at the very beginning. Not so much anymore.

I won't give advices or suggestion here, I may not be the best person for that. I do not want to bash better players either just for having more spare time to play than I do. I just wanted to speak out as a casul peasant everyone seems to forget about.

And maybe make you all think on how to make this game shine like Warband did.

Thank you for your time.
How is Siege broken?
Crash rates are less then 2 in 1000 matches. We briefly had crashes then FF was turned on but we took it back and it is getting fixed. There shouldn't be any crashes on Siege.
 

Incanuth

Squire
The plight of the casuals...

In my opinion one of the primary culprits is the restrictive premade loadout system that has been forced upon every gamemode.

The reason premade loadouts harm a gamemode like TDM is because it forces conformity and limited choices in an environment that has always been about offering a more chaotic and open-ended gameplay experience. In Team Deathmatch balance isn't overly important, it's more about the spectacle as well as experiences that emerge from the players expressing themselves. Creating a unique aesthetic or playstyle (viable or not) via an unorthodox or creative combination of items provided a lot of replayability and character to Warband multiplayer. It also made it easier to recognize other server regulars, which creates a more meaningful connection to whatever experiences (peaceful or otherwise) materialize from the interaction, rather than everyone being a generic clone.

I'd also like to point out that with the current class system we just don't have a lot of options. I'm not interested in min-maxing an OP build so much as I want to have some variety in my gameplay. Playing Legionary and you want an axe and a spear? Too bad, the option doesn't exist no matter how much gold you have saved up. While such a restriction might make sense in Skirmish it really has no place in a mode like TDM which, by its nature, is not quite as focused on balance.

As has been pointed out, the lack of battle mode and custom servers are also responsible for the current situation.
 
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Kunshiro

Banned
How is Siege broken?
Crash rates are less then 2 in 1000 matches. We briefly had crashes then FF was turned on but we took it back and it is getting fixed. There shouldn't be any crashes on Siege.
Being forced to play peasant classes? The constant getting kicked out after any siege/tdm? The low player base in skirmish which gets us paired with try hard? The weird swings and the damages? Cavalry being op?
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
I agree it must be rough for casual players - indeed it's rough for very experienced players if they just go into matchmaking alone due to the parties of players in the queue. It's been an issue for a year now.

Siege is pretty playable though, I think it could do with cav not being able to capture flags while mounted (as could Skirmish), and needs FF back though I understand if it had technical issues. The lack of collision between players is really noticeable in this mode as well. I don't see how just one flag helps siege though @Bloc why do you think that? People would still back-capture in Warband etc.

The game would benefit from a larger player, more casual Skirmish or Battle-style server imo. I would expect a lot of comp players to gravitate to one of them thus freeing up matchmaking and other servers. Devs could even call the servers different names, one for pros one for casuals etc.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Taleworlds managing the MP.

giphy.gif

Since August 2019 shouting "This way Forrest!"™ :iamamoron: ?
 

Kunshiro

Banned
I agree it must be rough for casual players - indeed it's rough for very experienced players if they just go into matchmaking alone due to the parties of players in the queue. It's been an issue for a year now.

Siege is pretty playable though, I think it could do with cav not being able to capture flags while mounted (as could Skirmish), and needs FF back though I understand if it had technical issues. The lack of collision between players is really noticeable in this mode as well. I don't see how just one flag helps siege though @Bloc why do you think that? People would still back-capture in Warband etc.

The game would benefit from a larger player, more casual Skirmish or Battle-style server imo. I would expect a lot of comp players to gravitate to one of them thus freeing up matchmaking and other servers. Devs could even call the servers different names, one for pros one for casuals etc.
Siege is playable only for defenders, I tried pushing a siege ram, and it was destroyed in 5 minutes since jumping down and dying is not punished since there's no lives. Its literally just, grab peasant/rabble, jump down, slow them down until the archer spam kills them all
Edit: and the cav spam
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
I think attackers are actually slightly favoured, in most cases I've seen it gets to the final flag at least (which is then usually a mess). But yeah pushing siege equipment is a death sentence, I let the lesser people do that.
 

MP_Erik

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNW
I agree it must be rough for casual players - indeed it's rough for very experienced players if they just go into matchmaking alone due to the parties of players in the queue. It's been an issue for a year now.
Yes, premade teams in skirmish are cancer. I got my hours in warband and did pretty well at the release of early access but at the moment 2 out of 3 matches you come up against a premade team of 4 or more and already know you have basically no cance.
I would like to play skirmish more (because I'm secretly behind the badges) but with the presence of clans it is just broken. How about a "random only" queue? Or even better: Give premate teams the option "allow team to split for balance reasons". I think that many premate teams want clan vs clan matches and have no interest in stomping random lobbies (at least those whom I won't gleefully offend here). Splitting teams in half when there is no other premate team available would increase the balance of those matchups and allow them to actually challange themselves.

For Siege/TDM I think it depends on the region:
Europe seems to have a pretty stable playerbase but for most other regions that's not the case.
In both modes we also have some serious issues (spawnpoints in TDM, siege engines require 0% skill 100% memorization, we are forced to play peasant classes regularly, most siege maps are extremely onesided near the end, ...) that are often written of as "It's a casual mode, it's meant to be broken" or blamed on the class system.

I also find it sad that in Europe the custom server siege is quite healthy but the lobby queue siege is essentially dead. Wonder how one could fix that (because I want badges).
 

XDaron

Sergeant Knight
Siege is playable only for defenders, I tried pushing a siege ram, and it was destroyed in 5 minutes since jumping down and dying is not punished since there's no lives. Its literally just, grab peasant/rabble, jump down, slow them down until the archer spam kills them all
Edit: and the cav spam
the good thing is that only one person needs to push the cart, the rest can protect that person
 

Kunshiro

Banned
the good thing is that only one person needs to push the cart, the rest can protect that person
The bad thing is that an endless wave of peasant rabble can't be stopped if they are supported by archers shooting too. And its quite hard to organize something like you suggested.
 

AVRC

MP Dev
Sergeant at Arms
I also find it sad that in Europe the custom server siege is quite healthy but the lobby queue siege is essentially dead. Wonder how one could fix that (because I want badges).
Once we are sure it is 100% stable, we will move it back to Queue. Friendly Fire crash issue is getting fixed at the moment.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It seems to me that the actual issue here is that there aren't enough game modes / servers right now - so casual players are being pushed to play Skirmish; a clearly highly competitive game mode. Skirmish is clearly not designed as a mode friendly to newer players. Though i don't understand what's wrong with siege? EU siege is usually pretty damn full; and great fun for everyone?

Also... this thread has nothing to do with the class system... as much as people want to make every thread about the class system. OP did not mention it once.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
Yes, premade teams in skirmish are cancer. I got my hours in warband and did pretty well at the release of early access but at the moment 2 out of 3 matches you come up against a premade team of 4 or more and already know you have basically no cance.
I would like to play skirmish more (because I'm secretly behind the badges) but with the presence of clans it is just broken. How about a "random only" queue?
WBMM, a third party client for Warband matchmaking, enforced duos only for queuing for this very reason.
 

Bloc

Archduke
WB
I don't see how just one flag helps siege though @Bloc why do you think that? People would still back-capture in Warband etc.
Because Spawn point shifting creates issues on teams like Khuzaits - horselording. Or even in theory, creates issues for all - since after several flags they are all spawning inside the castle.

Also, I don't like the system at all. It's fine if you like it, but I don't. It's a different siege than Warband. I'm not saying that we should get rid off, but I simply don't like it because it's not `siege`. It's BF rush siege in a way. I don't like not being able to defend one part of the castle just because of a game mechanic
In Warband, that single flag never disappears - in Bannerlord flags are disappearing and spawns are shifting.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Because Spawn point shifting creates issues on teams like Khuzaits - horselording. Or even in theory, creates issues for all - since after several flags they are all spawning inside the castle.

I really like the atmosphere of the current siege.
But the flag thing is so stupid.
Why is it call Siege when it turns to king of the hill after only a few flags.

The walls and gates don't have enough impact over the whole length of the match.

A while ago I proposed a "classic siege mode"
I doubt it will ever happen but having only 1 flag certainly has it's charm.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I miss single flag system. Though I also enjoyed Minas Tirith community map on Mount and Siege with stages.

Defenders could reclaim the outer walls and shut down gatehouse. With long respawning for defenders and long way for attackers it felt more organized.
 
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