Healing rates for heroes vs regular troops is ass-backwards

[Lord Irontoe]

Its makes no sense to me why hero characters, including the player, take so much longer to heal than regular troops.

On a story level, heroes should always be ready for action before the common troops. That's like a basic rule in pretty much every story ever told. The hero takes 3 bullets in the gut and is doing parkour 3 hours later. Nobody wants to see heroes convalescing in bed forever.

It makes no sense on a gameplay level. Why would you want players sitting and waiting around in town for days on end while all the troops are fully healed and ready to go? With low Medicine skill, it can take a full week to heal yourself and all your companions while the troops are healthy in a day or two. Shouldn't it be the other way around? You can still do a lot with a healthy main character and companions even if half the army is out of action, but you can't do anything if all your heroes are wounded.

It would also help the rate of leveling Medicine, since the troops now heal so fast you barely get a chance to build up much xp, so most of it comes just from healing companions. Why not switch the rates for hero and troop healing and change the perks that increase hero healing rate to increase troop healing rate? That would make sense to me.

 

[Hans 77]

Healing takes forever for the player, and pretty much anything can one-shot you.

Why create a game that encourages the player to be passive and inactive?

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Honestly if you guys are worried about this then just turn down the damage setting to freebooter, there is one for you personally (only 25% dmg taken) so you never go down and barely have to heal. Otherwise the point is to give you consequences for your actions, if you **** up then you gotta pay for it. But tbf I love punishing series like dark souls and think the bannerlord setting isn't hard enough. I just tested it and it only took me 3 in game days to heal to full from 0 in a castle with only 67 medicine. Barely any kind of consequence for getting your ass knocked out in a battle.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Honestly if you guys are worried about this then just turn down the damage setting to freebooter, there is one for you personally (only 25% dmg taken) so you never go down and barely have to heal. Otherwise the point is to give you consequences for your actions, if you **** up then you gotta pay for it. But tbf I love punishing series like dark souls and think the bannerlord setting isn't hard enough. I just tested it and it only took me 3 in game days to heal to full from 0 in a castle with only 67 medicine. Barely any kind of consequence for getting your ass knocked out in a battle.

Those are stupid consequences. Does Dark Souls have you sitting around looking at your screen while you wait to heal up? No. It puts you right back in the action because the people at FromSoftware know how to design fun game mechanics that don't force you to stare at your screen doing nothing.

You say it only took you 3 days to heal after battle. How long did it take for all your companions to heal up fully? Why do the troops heal so much faster than the heroes? That's the point I'm trying to make. If the troops took as long as the heroes, at least you'd be getting the medicine xp for it.

 

[black_bulldog]

I wonder if it's a hold over from Warband? Those that don't know that game you had 2 different ways to heal heroes. First was the wound treatment skill which healed everyone faster heroes and regular troops and the other first aid would return a percentage of health back to heroes after each battle. It could heal back as much as 50% but afaik there is no equivalent skill or perk in Bannerlord.

I never cared about the damage amounts in this game. I'm actually in the middle of a PoP playthrough with max difficulty and damn I forgot how unforgiving that game is. But as Blood Gryphon says you can tune the damage to yourself down if you want to just play as a battlefield commander or just play smart and stay the hell out of the scrap. My only issue is if I go down my troops just run around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

I wonder if it's a hold over from Warband? Those that don't know that game you had 2 different ways to heal heroes. First was the wound treatment skill which healed everyone faster heroes and regular troops and the other first aid would return a percentage of health back to heroes after each battle. It could heal back as much as 50% but afaik there is no equivalent skill or perk in Bannerlord.

I never cared about the damage amounts in this game. I'm actually in the middle of a PoP playthrough with max difficulty and damn I forgot how unforgiving that game is. But as Blood Gryphon says you can tune the damage to yourself down if you want to just play as a battlefield commander or just play smart and stay the hell out of the scrap. My only issue is if I go down my troops just run around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.

In Warband, the player healed fastest, troops healed slowest and companions were in the middle unless they had really high hp.

It's not about difficulty, and its insulting to imply that I'm complaining because I can't take the heat. The main reason I even brought this up is because I'd just won a tough fought battle where my whole party was wounded and I'm thinking this would be some juicy Med xp, but all my troops were fully healed before I even got to town so I had to sit there for the better part of the week just to heal the companions. It's just poor game design.

 

[five bucks]

So tldr: troops should heal a bit slower, and player should heal a bit faster?

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yes, this is why the preventative medicine perk is so important, but it doesn't cover everything. The most obnoxious situation is stuff like if you are knocked out in a siege after defeating many enemies and retreat and build on the siege map, SO MANY wounded enemies will recover by the the time you get even 20% hp needed to lead live battle that it's very silly and fake.

So tldr: troops should heal a bit slower, and player should heal a bit faster?

maybe? I think the default for no-medic troops should be much slower and the effect of the medicine skill much higher so when you actually have a good medic both player and troops healing speed is noticeable and worthwhile.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Honestly if you guys are worried about this then just turn down the damage setting to freebooter, there is one for you personally (only 25% dmg taken) so you never go down and barely have to heal.

I do not get why this is recommended. This is cheating in my book. Everyone can have their own understanding about cheating since this is a single player game. But me getting less damage than a soldier on the battlefield is unimmersive because I am playing M&B to be like any soldier on the battlefield.

Better solution is TW including a slider about healing rate like damage taken/given.

 

[geala]

Those are stupid consequences. Does Dark Souls have you sitting around looking at your screen while you wait to heal up? No. It puts you right back in the action because the people at FromSoftware know how to design fun game mechanics that don't force you to stare at your screen doing nothing.

You say it only took you 3 days to heal after battle. How long did it take for all your companions to heal up fully? Why do the troops heal so much faster than the heroes? That's the point I'm trying to make. If the troops took as long as the heroes, at least you'd be getting the medicine xp for it.

Dark Souls is a different game, and you have to use consequences differently in BL. Blood Gryphon just hinted at the idea of consequences, not the exact copy of Dark Souls stuff (a game I don't like btw).

The consequences of slow healing are not stupid. The world of Calradia runs to a certain degree without the player, so bad things can happen to the player's interests during the time he is sitting around healing. That's not a fault but a feature, it urges you to be a bit careful, look for armor, avoid reckless deeds, and so.

To your statement that heroes heal fast, that's true, but heroes also never use shields and helmets in movies, because of (stupid), respectively cannot afford good helmets in BL for a long period, because of (stupid economy), so they logically mostly receive head wounds (usually the most severe wounds) and have to stay longer in hospital than the common guys.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Honestly if you guys are worried about this then just turn down the damage setting to freebooter, there is one for you personally (only 25% dmg taken) so you never go down and barely have to heal. Otherwise the point is to give you consequences for your actions, if you **** up then you gotta pay for it. But tbf I love punishing series like dark souls and think the bannerlord setting isn't hard enough. I just tested it and it only took me 3 in game days to heal to full from 0 in a castle with only 67 medicine. Barely any kind of consequence for getting your ass knocked out in a battle.

The difference is that dark souls is more or less linear and there are regular game overs and restarts, countered by a desire to "finish" the game. Bannerlord on the other hand is a casual RTS where you do the same battles a million times. There is nothing more interesting than this waiting for you if you finish a battle, so there's no motivation to counteract the annoyance of being knocked unconscious.

Also you don't get sent back to retry a level, you just have to wait 5 minutes or irl time to recover your HP. It's pure tedium. There is a difference between challenging difficulty and mindless grinding. Increasing player down time is the latter.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Fortunately in this game you aren't forced to just wait in a town, you can still walk about and do anything you want to with 0 health. It only takes 20% of your health to actually participate in a fight, which takes less than a day in game and only a minute or two to actually recover, or if you have the preventative medicine perk you will never be below 20% health since you regain like 30% after a fight. Also holy **** do you guys really think im directly comparing bannerlord to dark souls? It was simply a reference to how I like difficult games.

I do not get why this is recommended. This is cheating in my book. Everyone can have their own understanding about cheating since this is a single player game. But me getting less damage than a soldier on the battlefield is unimmersive because I am playing M&B to be like any soldier on the battlefield.

Better solution is TW including a slider about healing rate like damage taken/given.

While i wouldn't do it personally as i feel similarly, its the simplest solution to this. If you barely take dmg then you wont have to wait around to heal, simple as that. Asking for a faster heal rate so you dont have to cry everytime you get your ass handed to you can be seen in the same light. TW already told us its done letting us customize these kinds of options, but would i actually give a **** if they give us a slider? no, more options are better.

Regardless OP's point is he wants medicine to train faster even though its already had a pretty big buff to its leveling speed compared to before. That's an ok take to have, but complaining that it takes 3 in game days to fully heal yourself (less than 5 minutes irl if you wait in a town at x3 speed) is just asking for the game to be easier overall in my eyes, which I'm against.

 

[Helerek]

I do not get why this is recommended. This is cheating in my book. Everyone can have their own understanding about cheating since this is a single player game. But me getting less damage than a soldier on the battlefield is unimmersive because I am playing M&B to be like any soldier on the battlefield.

Because it's not cheating and not 100% a difficulty setting. What it does is reduces damage taken by hero = easier game, but here's the catch! It's not only easier game, but you are also playing more of the game! As you can join more fights due to more health. So it's basically a setting that changes the amount of time you enjoy the game (unless you enjoy auto-resolve/waiting for your hero to heal up).

Yes there's 2 medicine perks (I always get 50 medicine for 30% max hp + 10 hp whenever I engage the enemy).

I believe there should be a way to heal companions/heroes. For example a hospital/sanctuary/witch doctor/ etc. at a settlement. He would heal up to a set amount for a nice price like 10-20k dennars or less for each companion/hero.

Problem right now with being wounded is that your only option to remove it is to wait! Nothing else.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Fortunately in this game you aren't forced to just wait in a town, you can still walk about and do anything you want to with 0 health. It only takes 20% of your health to actually participate in a fight, which takes less than a day in game and only a minute or two to actually recover, or if you have the preventative medicine perk you will never be below 20% health since you regain like 30% after a fight. Also holy **** do you guys really think im directly comparing bannerlord to dark souls? It was simply a reference to how I like difficult games.


While i wouldn't do it personally as i feel similarly, its the simplest solution to this. If you barely take dmg then you wont have to wait around to heal, simple as that. Asking for a faster heal rate so you dont have to cry everytime you get your ass handed to you can be seen in the same light. TW already told us its done letting us customize these kinds of options, but would i actually give a **** if they give us a slider? no, more options are better.

Regardless OP's point is he wants medicine to train faster even though its already had a pretty big buff to its leveling speed compared to before. That's an ok take to have, but complaining that it takes 3 in game days to fully heal yourself (less than 5 minutes irl if you wait in a town at x3 speed) is just asking for the game to be easier overall in my eyes, which I'm against.

You're still completely mischaracterizing my point as being about the difficulty when its got nothing to do with that. I'm talking about the difference in hero healing rate vs regular troops. What's the justification for troops healing twice as fast as heroes? What good is it if the whole army is totally healthy if the leader and the captains are half dead? Wouldn't it be more fun and create more interesting tactical situations if the heroes got healthy first while most of the army was still out of action? Isn't having half your army unavailable a consequence?

 

[black_bulldog]

In Warband, the player healed fastest, troops healed slowest and companions were in the middle unless they had really high hp.

It's not about difficulty, and its insulting to imply that I'm complaining because I can't take the heat. The main reason I even brought this up is because I'd just won a tough fought battle where my whole party was wounded and I'm thinking this would be some juicy Med xp, but all my troops were fully healed before I even got to town so I had to sit there for the better part of the week just to heal the companions. It's just poor game design.

I never said you were complaining and I wasn't trying to even imply it. I said that it didn't bother me and that damage could be altered by lowering the settings. I suppose that Taleworlds intention is that your party has a good medic of some kind so it's not so noticable. But why player/hero healing rates are lower is anyone's guess.

 

[black_bulldog]

I do not get why this is recommended. This is cheating in my book. Everyone can have their own understanding about cheating since this is a single player game. But me getting less damage than a soldier on the battlefield is unimmersive because I am playing M&B to be like any soldier on the battlefield.

Better solution is TW including a slider about healing rate like damage taken/given.

Ok while I'm not unsympathetic to what @Lord Irontoe is saying what you're suggesting is that one type of difficulty slider is cheating but creating another one is not. They're both different ways of approaching difficulty for the player. Lowering damage inflicted is not an implication of cheating it's player preference.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

You're still completely mischaracterizing my point as being about the difficulty when its got nothing to do with that. I'm talking about the difference in hero healing rate vs regular troops. What's the justification for troops healing twice as fast as heroes? What good is it if the whole army is totally healthy if the leader and the captains are half dead? Wouldn't it be more fun and create more interesting tactical situations if the heroes got healthy first while most of the army was still out of action? Isn't having half your army unavailable a consequence?

I'm with ya now, my bad. I have no problem with those rates being balanced, but in what direction would be my concern. Both healing rates seem fast to me right now and are unrealistic for "improved gameplay" reasons is my guess. If im not wrong again and you're saying you want to slow down healing rates for troops closer to hero rates then I agree with you.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Asking for a faster heal rate so you dont have to cry everytime you get your ass handed to you can be seen in the same light.

Ok while I'm not unsympathetic to what @Lord Irontoe is saying what you're suggesting is that one type of difficulty slider is cheating but creating another one is not.

If I am healing as same as a regular soldier in Calradia in max healing rate setting, then no, I would not consider it as cheating.

Because it's not cheating and not 100% a difficulty setting. What it does is reduces damage taken by hero = easier game, but here's the catch! It's not only easier game, but you are also playing more of the game! As you can join more fights due to more health.

I can understand what you are saying but nope, I just can not accept that.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Also holy **** do you guys really think im directly comparing bannerlord to dark souls? It was simply a reference to how I like difficult games.

I actually do think you can draw comparisons to DS and bannerlord in this regard. The problem with your statement in my eyes is that difficulty on is own is not the reason people like fromsoft games. Cutting your own penis off or waiting in a queue for 4 hours is difficult. That doesn't make it an interesting challenge. Even now, too much of the "difficulty" in Bannerlord is just tedium and grind, and there is no way to use player skill or imaginative solutions to gain a meaningful advantage. Every open world game is going to have a problem trying to prevent grinding since there are fewer limits to what order the player can do things, but bannerlord makes no attempt to prevent this at all. The tedium and repetition needs to be removed before we even begin to talk about increasing the difficulty.

 

[Spinozart1]

I'm talking about the difference in hero healing rate vs regular troops. What's the justification for troops healing twice as fast as heroes?

Because they are coded differently.
Check you party screen, only heroes have a health bar replenishing over time.
Troops do not have a health bar, they just have 2 stances (healthy or wounded), hence you feel like your army is recovering faster.
Then maybe you are wondering why troops have a health during battles... because for battles the game is just creating bots with a health pool of 100 + perks.
To make it short, only heroes have a real health system.
Personally, I like this system.
The AI has the exact same down time by the way.