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Have we Reached the Point of Passive Acceptance and Disappointed Resignation with Bannerlord?

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CptMuppet

Sergeant
What we were trying to do over time was to find an explanation about what went wrong during development based on external facts and a few insider leaks, taking in account all the objective difficulties that Taleworlds encountered, and there are a few likely theories. The verdict is still "too little too late" though.
Is there any thread about that topic worth reading you can think of off the top of your head?
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
Check the different threads with longer discussion where Mexxico (RIP) answered. You´ll get a lot of information out of those threads, Mexxico...the real MVP. Never forgotten.
 

Life_Erikson

Master Knight
M&BWBNWVC
Is there any thread about that topic worth reading you can think of off the top of your head?
I have been thinking about making a thread to head newcomers to if they want to know why people are so pessimistic about the game with all arguements given by (mostly newcomers) as to why the game is great / could become great still and the answeres by us pessimists *cough* realists.

I think it would prevent every thread spiraling down in the exact same arguments which occur every time somebody new comes to the forum and wants to know why everybody is so negative.
However creating such a thread would take litteral hours because the list of arguments and the respective answers with evidence would be so long.
Maybe I come around to it sometime with help from the community. It certainly would be useful and save a lot of time and frustration.


Concerning OP:
For me it really is the case that I have made my peace with the fact that not only BL will not be a fun game but also that it will not be out of developement to be fixed by modders anytime soon either. I don't plan on playing BL anymore unless it finaly releases out of developement. And I stopped actively waiting for it. It doesn't hold a place in my head anymore. I think the fact that in the time since BL came out I put more time into WB than BL speaks for itself.

On the one hand it is sad to see that the community around BL has calmed down because I think it means what many of you said above: People stopped caring about the game. On the other hand it really isn't exactly undeserved.
 

Snake_TW

Recruit
So please tell me, which new mind blowing feature does Bannerlord have compared to Warband so that it took 11 years? The banner editor where I can choose like 13 different banners? The broken smithing system which still can´t really be used if you don´t want to abuse the game? The still stupid campaign AI? What is it?
new engine! which is obviously incompatible with a lot of things the community wants.
I suppose, in fact, all the development time was spent on it.
Instead, they could take Unreal, Unity, Godot, and so on and spend their time solely on development.
 
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Honved

Knight
At this point, I drop in to check on things once or twice a week, rather than daily, and I'm starting to lose interest in even that much involvement. If Taleworlds had just added a few diplomatic and kingdom management options, a few minor bug-fixes, and some new items, I'd have bought it. Here we are, after a decade of development, and it's still missing a lot of the content that Warband had. Of course I'm disappointed and losing interest.

Incidentally, I still play Warband fairly often (mostly mods, but occasionally vanilla), but at this point, firing up Bannerlord is pointless.
 

Jviking

Recruit
Issues and questions for me atleast
* Fixing sieges should have been be a priority instead a modder had to fix it for them its just so bad.... https://gyazo.com/b398f4722367c91dc8ad745b62c9c879

* Formation should also have been a priority i mean how can the system be so bad that you can even decide how big or small your circle formation to be ether its always extremly big or just extremly tiny. same thing goes with when you press attack the units whil turn around for 1 second and therefore get shot by potentiall arrows.


* Why did they use the same time period that they had on warband im not sure about everyone else but the look of units are just extremly dissapointing

* then we got modding with is even bigger issue, 8 years working on the game they could have just delayed even futher to avoid this....


My favourite part of Warband was playing Viking conquest im not sure what others think but for me Viking conquest was the best and i somewhat was hoping for a viking conquest re make as a DLC in the future but that almost seems impossiblly
 
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Khadgarion

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNW
I am patiently waiting for the game to be released, and hoping that the Prophesy of Pendor crew will make PoP for Bannerlord. I could never go back to vanilla Warband after playing PoP.

Perhaps I have more experience waiting for games? I waited a very long time for Mechwarrior 5 Mercenaries to come out, and much of that wait I had given up hope that there would ever be another Mechwarrior Mercs... To be honest, I would rather have an early access game where I at least know there is some development going on than have nothing at all.

I played a lot of bannerlord already (200+ hours) and feel I have gotten my money's worth out of it, any more updates / fixes / patches / new mods that come about are a bonus, although I would appreciate a final release version :wink:
 

StomperXT

Recruit
Honestly just been waiting to see when we'd get some solid mods. TW disappointed me more than CDPR and Bannerlord at this stage feels like a joke to me frankly, so I'm on watch for that sweet PW/PF mod. This goes for pretty much all my friends and clan folk I know.
 

Meshkinas

Recruit
WBVC
I´ve reached the stage of acceptance that Bannerlord won´t be the game TW advertised back then and what I´ve hoped for. I just want it to be "over". TW should give us the few things they´ve announced and let modders take over to finish the game.

But I still think it´s funny that there are still some guys here who make good suggestions that still didn´t learn that their suggestions are worthless and they won´t get more than the usual "I´ll forward this to the devs LOL" answer.
I still think it's funny that people think mods will fix anything if the studio didn't. Especially when modders are limited as they are. Those people, who are still giving suggestions, are more rational than those of you putting all your hope in mods.
 
I sure am neither resigned nor disappointed. I will continue to give feedback and suggestions to the game. I am happy that some of the community's suggestions have made it into the game already, such as unlimited corpses and make your companions into vassals. If we just keep at it, and keep strong, TaleWorlds will deliver.

Also looking forward to what future patches may bring.
 
new engine! which is obviously incompatible with a lot of things the community wants.
I suppose, in fact, all the development time was spent on it.
Instead, they could take Unreal, Unity, Godot, and so on and spend their time solely on development.

Making a new game engine doesn't take 11 years. The are individual people who have made modern game engines in a fraction of that time.

What comprises a "game engine" is very vague and is only ever defined as the engine is being developed, but it's rarely what makes games take a long time to make. An engine is usually just replicable game code, a lot of which can be accessed in the public domain and implemented straightforwardly. I'm not suggesting that it's easy, but that it takes a fraction of the manhours that the rest of the game takes.

When studios say "we are creating a new engine", it's just PR speak to hype up customers. Most of the time when they say this, huge amounts of code get copied over into the "new" engine. It's primarily an in-office thing that doesn't affect the end product.

For example I use unreal engine 4, and unreal engine 5 is just a small update from 4. They haven't really added much besides bugfixes in the past 7 or so years, but based on their PR statements it sounds like they spent years behind the scenes building this amazing new piece of software. It's the same with bannerlord. The monent you could see screenshots back in 2013, the engine was basically already done.
 

Snake_TW

Recruit
Making a new game engine doesn't take 11 years. The are individual people who have made modern game engines in a fraction of that time.

What comprises a "game engine" is very vague and is only ever defined as the engine is being developed, but it's rarely what makes games take a long time to make. An engine is usually just replicable game code, a lot of which can be accessed in the public domain and implemented straightforwardly. I'm not suggesting that it's easy, but that it takes a fraction of the manhours that the rest of the game takes.

When studios say "we are creating a new engine", it's just PR speak to hype up customers. Most of the time when they say this, huge amounts of code get copied over into the "new" engine. It's primarily an in-office thing that doesn't affect the end product.

For example I use unreal engine 4, and unreal engine 5 is just a small update from 4. They haven't really added much besides bugfixes in the past 7 or so years, but based on their PR statements it sounds like they spent years behind the scenes building this amazing new piece of software. It's the same with bannerlord. The monent you could see screenshots back in 2013, the engine was basically already done.
almost all low-level code from basic types, mathematics, rendering, physics, support for various platforms, and an editor for all this!

On the example of UE4, this is 5 GB of text (!), This is a lot, it is more than a paper library with all your favorite books. small modules with implementations such as a gameplay framework and an AI module are just nothing in comparison.
I am a game developer myself and am working with UE4 at the moment.
 
almost all low-level code from basic types, mathematics, rendering, physics, support for various platforms, and an editor for all this!

On the example of UE4, this is 5 GB of text (!), This is a lot, it is more than a paper library with all your favorite books. small modules with implementations such as a gameplay framework and an AI module are just nothing in comparison.
I am a game developer myself and am working with UE4 at the moment.

I've also been using unreal for a few years. I still don't think any game engine should take 11 years because:

1. Unreal engine is a super-generalised game engine developed by upwards of a thousand core coders over decades, not to mention dozens of auxiliary companies like NVidia, Speedtree etc all contributing plugins, and replicated functions for all the different platforms. It's anomalously large and full of bloat, repetition, and microservices. I doubt Bannerlord's "engine" (or most other engines AAA games have) use even 1/100th of that.
An average game project will still only use the core functions that process blueprints, and the rest is just wrappers for the C++ std library, the editor UI, and the renderer. If you pause the debugger at any point while using unreal engine, you will see the same small handful of functions in the call-stack again and again. Most engines are just this without the feature bloat.

2. Bannerlord's engine was actually mostly done by 2013. They have added things, changed things and so on, but the single engine developer has said that it's just been him working on it this entire time. There have been other technical artists who worked on individual features like the instanced rigging, but other than that it's just been incremental work since then. The fact that the map editor is basically unchanged since it was first shown in 2014 should suggest that the engine is mostly the same code.
 

pro.fail

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Personally I haven't tried singleplayer since like 1.5.3 and just updated it a couple of days ago to 1.6.4. All I can say that it feels like an entirely different game. I am keeping the game in vanilla for now and it is just great. Not perfect, but great.

I mean, how many players actually played warband singleplayer without any mods? Vanilla warband feels like a demo project compared to Bannerlord, even in this stage.

I say keep it up.

(However I am sad for the multiplayer as I put thousands of hours to competitive multiplayer, for now I just completely avoid it in Bannerlord...)
 
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