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Have we Reached the Point of Passive Acceptance and Disappointed Resignation with Bannerlord?

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MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
So what is Bannerlord? It also doesn´t have the wheel new invented compared to Warband?!

The factions are reskin of the Warband factions. The army system is an improved marshall system (which is nice if the AI would be improved). RPG elements are not in the game (beside leveling up your characters). The sieges and battles are just a better (graphics, amount of troops and so on) version of the Warband battles. Diplomancy is still very stupid and shallow.

So please tell me, which new mind blowing feature does Bannerlord have compared to Warband so that it took 11 years? The banner editor where I can choose like 13 different banners? The broken smithing system which still can´t really be used if you don´t want to abuse the game? The still stupid campaign AI? What is it?
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
Yeah, but to be completely fair, Dice is few times the size of TaleWorlds and can do multiiple projects at the same time.
I know and I knew that someone would point this out. Yes Dice has over 700 hundred employees and TW has over 100, that´s of course a difference. Still the output from Dice in relation is way higher and here some other examples:

Red Hook Studios (less than 50 employees):
Darkest Dungeon - 2015
Darkest Dungeon II - 2021 (EA)

Cyanide (110 employees - 201:cool::
2010Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition
Dungeon RaidersNintendo DSUFO Interactive Games
Pro Cycling Manager: Season 2010WindowsFocus Home Interactive
2011Le Tour de FrancePlayStation 3, Xbox 360
Pro Cycling Manager: Season 2011Windows
2012Blood Bowl: Chaos Edition
Confrontation
DungeonbowlCyanide
Game of ThronesWindows, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360Focus Home Interactive
Le Tour de France 2012PlayStation 3, Xbox 360
Of Orcs and MenWindows, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360
Pro Cycling Manager: Season 2012Windows
2013Aarklash: LegacyCyanide
Dungeon Party
Le Tour de France 2013: 100th EditionPlayStation 3, Xbox 360Focus Home Interactive
Pro Cycling Manager: Season 2013Windows
2014Basketball Pro Management 2015Cyanide
Dogs of War Online
Front Page Sports Football
Le Tour de France: Season 2014PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4, Xbox 360Focus Home Interactive
PRM 2015: Pro Rugby ManagerWindows505 Games
Pro Cycling Manager 2014Focus Home Interactive
Styx: Master of ShadowsWindows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
2015Blood Bowl 2
Le Tour de France: Season 2015PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Pro Cycling Manager 2015Windows
2016Le Tour de France: Season 2016PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Pro Basketball Manager 2016WindowsCyanide
Pro Basketball Manager 2016: US Edition
Pro Cycling Manager 2016Focus Home Interactive
2017Le Tour de France: Season 2017PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Pro Basketball Manager 2017WindowsCyanide
Pro Cycling Manager 2017Focus Home Interactive
Styx: Shards of DarknessWindows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
2018Call of Cthulhu
Le Tour de France: Season 2018PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Pro Cycling Manager 2018Windows
Space Hulk: TacticsWindows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
2019Blood Bowl: Death ZoneWindowsBigben Interactive
Tour de France: Season 2019PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Paranoia: Happiness is MandatoryWindows
Pro Cycling Manager Season 2019
2020Pro Cycling Manager 2020Nacon
Tour de France 2020Windows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
2021Pro Cycling Manager 2021Windows
Rogue Lords
Tour de France 2021Windows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Werewolf: The Apocalypse - EarthbloodWindows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S

This list can go on and on and on forever. The argument:

Have you thought about that in 10 years, videogame development will take 10 times longer that it is now? This is because demand for smoother, better looking and deeper videogames is only increasing. In the 90s it took 15 months to create legendary titles like The Secret of Monkey Island and Doom. But we dont mess about with 10 pixels and 3 colors anymore.

Lord of the Rings is just a movie, but 20 years ago, it took 8 years in the making.

Is just bull****...
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I simply don't care that much about the game. I don't care about how it took 8 years in development. I wasn't working with them for those 8 years. I wasn't playing Bannerlord for 8 years. I didn't pay them monthly for those 8 years. I have no investment whatsoever in those 8 years, so why should I care that it took 8 years?

Right now I'm playing Bannerlord from time to time. I take breaks when I get bored of it. I return when I miss it, and so far I've been having fun with the game. I report bugs when I see them. I post suggestions when I have them. If they're not fixed or implemented, then so be it. I might try the modding tool and implement them myself, if I still care enough by the time the game is on full release, and if the modding tool allows me to do so. Really, I have no reason to be angry.
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
Red Hook Studios (less than 50 employees):
Darkest Dungeon - 2015
Darkest Dungeon II - 2021 (EA)

Cyanide (110 employees - 201:cool::
Well, now you are comparing Bannerlord to smaller projects and literal reskins of the game. I think it is not a fair comparison either.
Don't get me wrong, in my opinion development of Bannerlord is far from perfect, but behind it taking so much time there are also some valid reasons, not only TaleWorlds mistakes.
 
Well, now you are comparing Bannerlord to smaller projects and literal reskins of the game. I think it is not a fair comparison either.
Don't get me wrong, in my opinion development of Bannerlord is far from perfect, but behind it taking so much time there are also some valid reasons, not only TaleWorlds mistakes.

Well, I mean, it isn't a huge project, as shown on this thread by multiple users. I could change the bulb of my headlight in my car which would take literal hours (because of all those annoying clips and whatnot), where my mechanic would do it 5 minutes. It's a big project for me but a small project for my mechanic.

My mechanic does it in 5 minutes because hes much more experienced at taking on a project like that. I have only done it twice before, on different systems, so I take a lot longer and make more mistakes.

Now I could say that I "know how to do it, but this cars just weird" or that "it was raining outside" so I couldnt do it quickly enough. But those external factors only hide my own incompetence.

There are some minor valid reasons depending on unforeseen external factors which could add up to a small delay, but mostly its just TW's incompetence leading up to this trainwreck.

Bannerlord could've (/should've?) been a literal reskin + the top10 most downloaded mods integrated and people would have loved it.
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Well, now you are comparing Bannerlord to smaller projects and literal reskins of the game. I think it is not a fair comparison either.
Don't get me wrong, in my opinion development of Bannerlord is far from perfect, but behind it taking so much time there are also some valid reasons, not only TaleWorlds mistakes.
Which valid reasons? Warning: we've heard them all.
In fact, we have the whole Taleworlds apologist playbook and critical analysis of each play. And a whole lot of time to spend arguing back and forth.
Hint: the best you can do is Covid lockdowns, don't try with the game scale and complexity, you'll lose.
Well said.

No game is perfect, no studio is perfect.
Note that this is not a valid argument for messing up your bulb change, but no forum post is perfect.
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
My mechanic does it in 5 minutes because hes much more experienced at taking on a project like that. I have only done it twice before, on different systems, so I take a lot longer and make more mistakes.
But making Bannerlord was not "changing a lightbulb in a car", it was "designing and constructing a new car", but not only that, it was also "expanding a factory" (studio was smaller) and "designing and building new machines needed in factory for building a car" (new game engine) first.

Also software development is a *****, especially a big project. Every time project grows 2x => amount of work grows 4x. You put 2x more employees into it => it gets 1.4x faster at best.

Bannerlord could've (/should've?) been a literal reskin + the top10 most downloaded mods integrated and people would have loved it.
Some people probably would have love it, and some wouldn't. Imo decision of making a new game engine and completely new game was a good move.
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
Which valid reasons? Warning: we've heard them all.
In fact, we have the whole Taleworlds apologist playbook and critical analysis of each play. And a whole lot of time to spend arguing back and forth.
Hint: the best you can do is Covid lockdowns, don't try with the game scale and complexity, you'll lose.
Maybe you heard them all, but if you just don't want to accept/understand any of them no matter what, no matter if they are valid or not, it is your decision. And it is ok, but don't expect that game will all of a sudden "magically" done perfect just because of this.

I perfectly understand dissapointment and anger, but emotions do not equal the truth.
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
Which valid reasons? Warning: we've heard them all.
In fact, we have the whole Taleworlds apologist playbook and critical analysis of each play. And a whole lot of time to spend arguing back and forth.
Hint: the best you can do is Covid lockdowns, don't try with the game scale and complexity, you'll lose.
Also, acknowledging own mistakes by TaleWorlds or anybody else does not mean that those mistakes can be fixed, not all at least, and nothing can change that.
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
Maybe you heard them all, but if you just don't want to accept/understand any of them no matter what, no matter if they are valid or not, it is your decision. And it is ok, but don't expect that game will all of a sudden "magically" done perfect just because of this.

I perfectly understand dissapointment and anger, but emotions do not equal the truth.
So it´s still covid? K, thx, bye.

By the way, you ever heard about the feature of the "edit" button in a forum?
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Maybe you heard them all, but if you just don't want to accept/understand any of them no matter what, no matter if they are valid or not, it is your decision. And it is ok, but don't expect that game will all of a sudden "magically" done perfect just because of this.

I perfectly understand dissapointment and anger, but emotions do not equal the truth.
It's not a fair argument to make when my language was not emotional and also not fair to build two strawman: "you don't want to understand" and "you expect a perfect game". No, I'm not emotional and those strawmen don't apply - where do you come up with this stuff?
Try a real argument.
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
It's not a fair argument to make when my language was not emotional and also not fair to build two strawman: "you don't want to understand" and "you expect a perfect game". No, I'm not emotional and those strawmen don't apply - where do you come up with this stuff?
Try a real argument.
Sorry for my assumption then. From your replies, it seemed to me that you heard already argument about how the development of a game works and what consequences it brings together with mistakes TaleWorlds made, but you just don't recognize it as a valid reason. From that I assumed and wrote the part about emotions.
If fact that you not recognizing said argument about develepment as valid reason is your opinion and not an effect of some negative emotions about the game, then sorry again about the assumption and I agree to dissagree about said argument. Cheers!
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Sorry for my assumption then. From your replies, it seemed to me that you heard already argument about how the development of a game works and what consequences it brings together with mistakes TaleWorlds made, but you just don't recognize it as a valid reason. From that I assumed and wrote the part about emotions.
If fact that you not recognizing said argument about develepment as valid reason is your opinion and not an effect of some negative emotions about the game, then sorry again about the assumption and I agree to dissagree about said argument. Cheers!
Okay, just don't assume too much. Several people here, including me, know enough about software development and its problems.
What we were trying to do over time was to find an explanation about what went wrong during development based on external facts and a few insider leaks, taking in account all the objective difficulties that Taleworlds encountered, and there are a few likely theories. The verdict is still "too little too late" though.
 
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