Have there been any developments regarding executions and broader late game mechanics for the full-release?

[geala]

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I never oppose any ideas that may give the game more depth, but I also doubt TW will do anything more advanced than what we're seeing right now. All cheese will be punished severely in-game, relations are likely to remain as shallow as they currently are and NPC's will most likely remain playing the role of bots / numbers. I don't think they've ever intended for the game to have a strong RPing possibility, which's odd because without it the game becomes exceptionally boring overtime... As is I suspect they want to DLC all the fun stuff and just let the community make good games out of their skeleton barebones while they cash-in as much as possible from it.
What ticks to me is that they've given a lot of attention towards numbing the experience and turning every efficient strategy into "non-viable" through their odd balancing, this made me suspect they intend to make the base-game excrutiatingly annoying so they can "sell the solution to the problem they've created" through DLC (I hope I'm wrong) while also inflating playtime numbers artificially to claim success

Sounds too much like a conspiracy theory for me, I let that to the make-great-again people. I think they are simply overwhelmed by the task.

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Tweaking my earlier post, maybe this would be more reasonable?
Clan of executed: -75 relations
Fellow Kingdom vassals of executed: -15 relations
Friends of executed: -10 relations
Merciful/Honest/Valor Nobles: -5 relations
Cruel/Dishonest/Cowardly Nobles: +5 relations
Enemies of executed: +10 relations

Of course Friends/Enemies need to be more logically defined. Ideally they would develop organically over course of a game session.

The trait system drive me nuts, it's literally right here and could add so much dynamism to the game. But TW doesn't seem to being doing anything with it at all other then a select few checks (like when you loot a fief).

Good ideas, perhaps a bit too complicated, because I doubt a reasonable friends/enemies definition could be found. Also the execution of some villains could maybe even be appreciated by some honest etc. lords while some cruel might not like it, so we needed differentiation here too. I would already be satisfied if we got just a big - relation with the clan and a slight - relation with the rest of the kingdom vassals.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Tweaking my earlier post, maybe this would be more reasonable?
Clan of executed: -75 relations
Fellow Kingdom vassals of executed: -15 relations
Friends of executed: -10 relations
Merciful/Honest/Valor Nobles: -5 relations
Cruel/Dishonest/Cowardly Nobles: +5 relations
Enemies of executed: +10 relations

Of course Friends/Enemies need to be more logically defined. Ideally they would develop organically over course of a game session.

The trait system drive me nuts, it's literally right here and could add so much dynamism to the game. But TW doesn't seem to being doing anything with it at all other then a select few checks (like when you loot a fief).

Execution consequences do seem much more reasonable compared to how it was, it's good. I really like your suggestions generally (maybe -75 is a bit too much but also seems fair enough for someone to passionately hate you for killing a family member). One thing I would oppose would be the -15 relation for same kingdom clans. I think maybe same kingdom clan relation loss should be scrapped, and that executing a friend is made -20 while enemies only gain +10 relation (+/- traits). If the game is going to gain more depth for the late game, there should be clans within the same kingdom that compete with each other for influence and land through votes. So for example, if 2 clans have -50 relations or less, one of the clan leaders should start a vote for confiscating the other's fief or kicking them out of the kingdom (and in general clan relations should be determined at the start of the game and their leaders' stances on votes and kingdom policies).

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

Execution consequences do seem much more reasonable compared to how it was, it's good. I really like your suggestions generally (maybe -75 is a bit too much but also seems fair enough for someone to passionately hate you for killing a family member). One thing I would oppose would be the -15 relation for same kingdom clans. I think maybe same kingdom clan relation loss should be scrapped, and that executing a friend is made -20 while enemies only gain +10 relation (+/- traits). If the game is going to gain more depth for the late game, there should be clans within the same kingdom that compete with each other for influence and land through votes. So for example, if 2 clans have -50 relations or less, one of the clan leaders should start a vote for confiscating the other's fief or kicking them out of the kingdom (and in general clan relations should be determined at the start of the game and their leaders' stances on votes and kingdom policies).

You just spend 500k to recruit a clan and now all the other vassals are trying to kick them out again.

Ehh, its probably not going to be that popular when it comes down to it

 

[Totalgarbage]

I never oppose any ideas that may give the game more depth, but I also doubt TW will do anything more advanced than what we're seeing right now. All cheese will be punished severely in-game, relations are likely to remain as shallow as they currently are and NPC's will most likely remain playing the role of bots / numbers. I don't think they've ever intended for the game to have a strong RPing possibility, which's odd because without it the game becomes exceptionally boring overtime... As is I suspect they want to DLC all the fun stuff and just let the community make good games out of their skeleton barebones while they cash-in as much as possible from it.
What ticks to me is that they've given a lot of attention towards numbing the experience and turning every efficient strategy into "non-viable" through their odd balancing, this made me suspect they intend to make the base-game excrutiatingly annoying so they can "sell the solution to the problem they've created" through DLC (I hope I'm wrong) while also inflating playtime numbers artificially to claim success

I think your gripes about the game is caused more by TW being very strained and possibly the leadership being insufficient rather than an intention of selling more DLCs. They have added more RP stuff (such as the ruler giving you loyal knights and a unique weapon & cutscenes), although very slowly. The game's scope is ridiculously large and there are no similar games on the market because of the scope. I'm also guessing that due to the economic troubles, the company had a very significant of its employees change jobs and had to hire new people and/or get a lot of interns. If my assumption is correct, new hires who don't know anything about the game beforehand (and possibly being inexperienced in game dev) severely slowed down the development (+ patch release) speed.

 

[Totalgarbage]

You just spend 500k to recruit a clan and now all the other vassals are trying to kick them out again.

Ehh, its probably not going to be that popular when it comes down to it

That is a good point. Although this can easily be limited by increasing the influence req for starting such votes, making only clan leaders with a specific trait willing to start these votes, etc. and you can "work around" it by actually checking the encyclopaedia before the recruitment process (which we should already be required to in the first place since traits should or maybe already do affect vassal behaviour). But you're right, implementing such features, not to mention maintaining it is much harder than theorising it. And unlike most modders, the devs will have to think about how this interacts with their already existing systems since such mechanics will not be optional unlike mods.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

That is a good point. Although this can easily be limited by increasing the influence req for starting such votes, making only clan leaders with a specific trait willing to start these votes, etc. and you can "work around" it by actually checking the encyclopaedia before the recruitment process (which we should already be required to in the first place since traits should or maybe already do affect vassal behaviour). But you're right, implementing such features, not to mention maintaining it is much harder than theorising it. And unlike most modders, the devs will have to think about how this interacts with their already existing systems since such mechanics will not be optional unlike mods.

"Go and check the encyclopedia" can work on a small scale. But once we start dealing with large numbers of lords or vassals it becomes a heavy case of management by excel.

Personal example. A few patches ago you were able to hand in captured lords for relationship gains with the clan holding the town/castle in question. Initially, I though the amount of relationship you gained, if any, was dependent on the relation between the clans. Not the case, it depended on whether they shared or had opposing traits.

Long story short, I ended up spending way too much time, excel stile, aligning the lords I had captured with opposing trait fellow vassals in whose dungeons I could dump them.

If you have tons and tons of prisoners or vassal etc, you just really dont want to do this.

 

[Totalgarbage]

"Go and check the encyclopedia" can work on a small scale. But once we start dealing with large numbers of lords or vassals it becomes a heavy case of management by excel.

True, I just pulled the suggestion out of my arse, and I have no knowledge in game development so my suggestion may or may not be good enough.

Regarding your personal example, to my understanding it seems more like a poor explanation and implementation of game mechanics and you trying to min/max relationship gain rather than something inherently tedious?

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

True, I just pulled the suggestion out of my arse, and I have no knowledge in game development so my suggestion may or may not be good enough.

Regarding your personal example, to my understanding it seems more like a poor explanation and implementation of game mechanics and you trying to min/max relationship gain rather than something inherently tedious?

It is a bad design because it heavily encourages/rewards micromanagement.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Yeah you're right about that.

 

[xdj1nn]

Sounds too much like a conspiracy theory for me, I let that to the make-great-again people. I think they are simply overwhelmed by the task.

no conspiracy there, those are just suspicions. Conspiracy ppl wear tinfoil hats because "they know"

I think your gripes about the game is caused more by TW being very strained and possibly the leadership being insufficient rather than an intention of selling more DLCs. They have added more RP stuff (such as the ruler giving you loyal knights and a unique weapon & cutscenes), although very slowly. The game's scope is ridiculously large and there are no similar games on the market because of the scope. I'm also guessing that due to the economic troubles, the company had a very significant of its employees change jobs and had to hire new people and/or get a lot of interns. If my assumption is correct, new hires who don't know anything about the game beforehand (and possibly being inexperienced in game dev) severely slowed down the development (+ patch release) speed.

could be, nothing's out of game, the only thing we know is that they've been deaf to the community for the past 10+ years regarding BL... Some of us have been trying to suggest things for years, way before EA was even a possibility.

 

[Apocal]

Long story short, I ended up spending way too much time, excel stile, aligning the lords I had captured with opposing trait fellow vassals in whose dungeons I could dump them.

I always found that to be a waste of time (both RL and in-game) compared to just going out and capturing another load of nobles.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

I always found that to be a waste of time (both RL and in-game) compared to just going out and capturing another load of nobles.

You could get as much as 50+ relationship with a clan from handing in a clanleader. The highest I saw for handing in a king was a 116 relationship gain. So, it was a powerful tool for situations where your main goal was to build relationship or powerlevel charm.