Have the Tanneries been nerfed?

[StewVader]

nerfing tanneries is totally ok. they were over the top compared to other workshops. but what i dont like is the overall attempt to put as much grind as possible in the game. u grind for exp, relation, access to units, money and so on. this is only my personal oppinion and no one has to agree, but i do not enjoy the direction the game is going right now. extending the time u put in a game by adding grind instead of content seems like a cheap solution. i hope they will rethink this.

This 100%. Well said.

 

[Marajah]

The economy in this game is javelin based. Smith some 2-handers (the more swing cut damage the better) until you get the recipes for good javelins. They don't even have to be top tier. 100+ damage should sell for more gold than most cities have available. They are very cheap to make, requiring 1 iron,1 wood and 1 charcoal and suddenly you have Calradia's new currency. They are probably gonna get stuck in your inventory since you won't be able to get gold if mass producing since there isn't enough and you might need to go through some long javelin crafting sessions if you are captured, but then again, they are cheap. Workshops, caravans and taxes are secondary

 

[nyarlathotep1975]

The economy in this game is javelin based. Smith some 2-handers (the more swing cut damage the better) until you get the recipes for good javelins. They don't even have to be top tier. 100+ damage should sell for more gold than most cities have available. They are very cheap to make, requiring 1 iron,1 wood and 1 charcoal and suddenly you have Calradia's new currency. They are probably gonna get stuck in your inventory since you won't be able to get gold if mass producing since there isn't enough and you might need to go through some long javelin crafting sessions if you are captured, but then again, they are cheap. Workshops, caravans and taxes are secondary

and u think that will not get fixed at some point? oh, sweet summer child

 

[eddiemccandless]

The economy in this game is javelin based. Smith some 2-handers (the more swing cut damage the better) until you get the recipes for good javelins. They don't even have to be top tier. 100+ damage should sell for more gold than most cities have available. They are very cheap to make, requiring 1 iron,1 wood and 1 charcoal and suddenly you have Calradia's new currency. They are probably gonna get stuck in your inventory since you won't be able to get gold if mass producing since there isn't enough and you might need to go through some long javelin crafting sessions if you are captured, but then again, they are cheap. Workshops, caravans and taxes are secondary

It can not be said that Calradia's economy is not on point.

 

[Bob Gnarly]

The economy in this game is javelin based. Smith some 2-handers (the more swing cut damage the better) until you get the recipes for good javelins. They don't even have to be top tier. 100+ damage should sell for more gold than most cities have available. They are very cheap to make, requiring 1 iron,1 wood and 1 charcoal and suddenly you have Calradia's new currency. They are probably gonna get stuck in your inventory since you won't be able to get gold if mass producing since there isn't enough and you might need to go through some long javelin crafting sessions if you are captured, but then again, they are cheap. Workshops, caravans and taxes are secondary

Smithing will get it's turn under the nerf hammer. Smithing needs to be totally overhauled IMO.

 

[Graden]

Well something i have wondered since I started this EA is if for example i make a smith in town, does it have higher chance to spawn better weapons and armour in shops?

 

[Dabos37]

The economy in this game is javelin based. Smith some 2-handers (the more swing cut damage the better) until you get the recipes for good javelins. They don't even have to be top tier. 100+ damage should sell for more gold than most cities have available. They are very cheap to make, requiring 1 iron,1 wood and 1 charcoal and suddenly you have Calradia's new currency. They are probably gonna get stuck in your inventory since you won't be able to get gold if mass producing since there isn't enough and you might need to go through some long javelin crafting sessions if you are captured, but then again, they are cheap. Workshops, caravans and taxes are secondary

Yep, this is one of the reasons because having supper expensive equipment is not a good idea to try to deal with players having too much gold, because selling loot or crafted equipment give us tons of money.

TW, please reduce the cost of equipment, make high tier equipment available since day 1 and please improve the looting. This way we could get better equipment after battle but selling It by much less cost.

 

[black_bulldog]

nerfing tanneries is totally ok. they were over the top compared to other workshops. but what i dont like is the overall attempt to put as much grind as possible in the game. u grind for exp, relation, access to units, money and so on. this is only my personal oppinion and no one has to agree, but i do not enjoy the direction the game is going right now. extending the time u put in a game by adding grind instead of content seems like a cheap solution. i hope they will rethink this.

Either you didn't play unmodded M&B / Warband or you don't remember very well. It was a huge grind to make money, rep etc in those games too until you got your first town or became king. It was one of the biggest reasons I stop playing vanilla Warband. I'm not saying I disagree with you because it does get tedious but I think TW expects players to have very long playthroughs.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Either you didn't play unmodded M&B / Warband or you don't remember very well. It was a huge grind to make money, rep etc in those games too until you got your first town or became king. It was one of the biggest reasons I stop playing vanilla Warband. I'm not saying I disagree with you because it does get tedious but I think TW expects players to have very long playthroughs.

That is not the experience I had. In Warband all you had to do was getting multiple productive enterprises set up, which was easy if you won a few tournaments, and you didn't need to worry about money anymore (at least until late game when you were trying to conquer everything with a big army and had multiple garrisons).

It did take a modicum of work to get there, but I wouldn't call it grindy by any means. I enjoyed the process myself and I hope that they can take Bannerlord to that sweet spot.

 

[Marajah]

and u think that will not get fixed at some point? oh, sweet summer child

Of course I don't. Javelin based economies make sense in any setting. Every successful civilization made a javelin fort to control currency value at some point in history. Why would you change that? What's there to fix?

 

[Nakh]

Given all sources of income already hit by nerf hammer next thing to crush will be smithng profits. What point of nerfing workshops to uselessness if players will just ignore them? I expect profits from smithing shrink to ~100 gold per one character day of work.

 

[Bob Gnarly]

Well smithing profits are ridiculous currently. I can make multiple items worth 100k+ no problems, the only limitation is merchants don't have enough cash.

 

[Dionaea]

Well something i have wondered since I started this EA is if for example i make a smith in town, does it have higher chance to spawn better weapons and armour in shops?

Yes, a Smith in town provides better weapons and armours, a woodworker provides better bows and javelins and crossbows and shields and a tannery will provide leather based armour

Either you didn't play unmodded M&B / Warband or you don't remember very well. It was a huge grind to make money, rep etc in those games too until you got your first town or became king. It was one of the biggest reasons I stop playing vanilla Warband. I'm not saying I disagree with you because it does get tedious but I think TW expects players to have very long playthroughs.

In warband you first farm looters, then mountain bandits and then when you and your companions are strong enough to take them on you camp outside the sea raider camp slightly below the Vaegir city on the coast and have sea raiders attack you until your inventory is full, sell the loot and slaves in that city, heal up maybe win a tournament while you are at it, go back to the spawn camp and camp there a bit and have spawned sea raiders attack you and take them out for xp, loot (they have the best loot) and slaves until you can build your first enterprise, after that it's all about building enterprises in as many towns as possible and this is easy, just stock up on food, get into a town, click wait here and just go do something else, work in the garden a bit, make coffee, do the dishwasher, come and check occasionally that an alert hasn't paused the game or that you stopped waiting (it happens after a while it seems) and wait some more and you'll have plenty of money when you did your chores and can play on by now your first enterprise should have made you enough to immediately build several enterprises so your money worries are over and you can start thinking about how you actually want to play the game and what type of character you will be, what type of army you'll form who you'll join etc... and then the actual game and fun can start.

I always, and I do mean always in warband, first travel around collecting the 10 stable companions you can have in your party, and do brawls in arena's for xp and maybe gold if I end up the last man standing (this is much easier yet tedious in Bannerlord than it was in warband by the way you just have to hide in a corner ducked behind a shield if you got one, and wait for the others to finish each other off with the ocasional fighter going for you, and finally taking out the last spawned fighter) then buy bows for all my heroes and 2 handed polearms/axes and go farm the looters =>mountain bandits => sea raiders. Since there's only 11 of you you share good amounts of xp with few people thus leveling your heroes fast in the beginning, keep focusing in strength and athletics for the heroes so your band of 11 can kill 30 sea raiders with ease (half of them will be sniped with archer fire by the time they reach your battle line) and level surgery and tactics and trainer for yourself so that when you are finished with the hard work and the farming and the actual game part of the game can start and you have done the waiting after buying your first enterprise you can build the other enterprises and then recruit a big army that levels fast and has a low risk of suffering lethal casualties.



Since Bannerlord I can't go back to warband though, the graphics put me off although I do miss my mighty companion force just camping outside the sea raider hideout and getting free armour, and weapons and wonderful loot

The economy in this game is javelin based. Smith some 2-handers (the more swing cut damage the better) until you get the recipes for good javelins. They don't even have to be top tier. 100+ damage should sell for more gold than most cities have available. They are very cheap to make, requiring 1 iron,1 wood and 1 charcoal and suddenly you have Calradia's new currency. They are probably gonna get stuck in your inventory since you won't be able to get gold if mass producing since there isn't enough and you might need to go through some long javelin crafting sessions if you are captured, but then again, they are cheap. Workshops, caravans and taxes are secondary

This is what I've resorted to now that my workshops aren't profitable anymore, feels like I'm playing skyrim all over again only Skyrim at least didn't make you stop smithing to "rest"

 

[Because]

Of course I don't. Javelin based economies make sense in any setting. Every successful civilization made a javelin fort to control currency value at some point in history. Why would you change that? What's there to fix?

Makes perfect sense to me as well as it was, at least with a bit of luck something that the common man could aspire to making themselves, and so could become the bedrock of all economic activity. Armour which would retail for even more didn't make it into the market as the mysterious craftsmen capable of producing it didn't like to sell it except in the rarest of circumstances hence the Javelin became the gold standard.

The game would be made better if it had a competitive element though, beyond the initial luck. Just a race between you and some rival smiths to see who could get to the Javelin era civilisation first and buy everyone and everything else in the world (bar the still elusive armour). Of course if two smiths both were able to get to the Javelin era at the same time the game might stagnate into a cold war situation where neither side would be able to out buy the other, but at least it would give a few end game scenarios. Cold War Stalemate, You achieve javelin level enlightenment and the world is yours or you are crushed by the power of a rival and the only thing left is to see how many of those sweet, sweet throwing stacks you would be worth when they came to buy you.

 

[abc123456]

nerfing tanneries is totally ok. they were over the top compared to other workshops. but what i dont like is the overall attempt to put as much grind as possible in the game. u grind for exp, relation, access to units, money and so on. this is only my personal oppinion and no one has to agree, but i do not enjoy the direction the game is going right now. extending the time u put in a game by adding grind instead of content seems like a cheap solution. i hope they will rethink this.

100% agree with this. Everything until you get your own kingdom is boring. Here is basically my early-mid game:

grind looters to get workshops and caravans, then
grind more looters until clan tier 4...
sometimes I join as mercenary which can be good, but sometimes the kingdom just slows you down.
i use to grind tournaments but don't bother anymore. Takes too long for just 3 renown.
I don't even bother taking loot from looters or taking looters as prisoners because there is no keyboard shortcut to 'take all' and there is a lag when I take all loot.

This grind has to go, it is the worst thing about this game. It is so bad that the first thing if I ever start modding is to get rid of this grind. Please don't waste your time or our time with this grinding gameplay.


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Now about tanneries, I have been playing the same 1.4.2 version for a week. Interetingly, my tannery was giving +600 for a bit. Now for the past few days it has drop to +98..
I would be good under the other tab we could have some UI to breakdown what is contributing to our workshop incomes..

 

[shades_o_grey]

Tanneries provided such high income because of a BUG. They would turn hides into leather, making profit, then use their own leather (that was already profited on) to make armor, making even more profit.

Once they get brought in line with other workshops, the whole mechanic can be rebalanced.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

I did not understand. What do you mean by AI is cheating? What AI is doing that you cannot do? When they escape from prison they start with 10% of party size filled with troops only and as @scarface52 mentioned they can get troops from 2 slots ahead for now (means that if normally they can get 1st slot only they can get from slots 1-2-3, its like they are playing at easiest recruiting mode. It will be removed when initial lord-notable relations are set). These are the only cheats AI have in your scenario. If you see AI lord with hundreds of troops they probably took them from garrison or recruited from villages.

One thing the AI can do is teleport. After the player escapes, he had to run in a group of 1 to the nearest friendly place to recruit. I'm not sure how NPCs handle it, but I've never seen an enemy lord running to the nearest town after escaping prison.

Also the player is especially vulnerable after being captured, because (especially with infantry armies) there will be a large herd of horses and mules slowing the player down. Rather than delete inventory I've reverted to a previous save. I mean that's fine but it just encourages people to cheat to avoid capture. Also makes surrender kind of meaningless since you lose 100% of troops, whereas if you escape you'll only lose some. So the surrender option becomes a non option. There's no benefit to using it.

 

[public_static]

I don't think its so much a nerf as a totally rebalance of the economy seen in 1.4.2 (1.4.1 is easier to make money by non-loot non-smithing means). One of the deciding things has to be the fact that both the caravans and lords now have better forces within them, therefore more of the caravans get to the destinations which must have a trade knock-on for both lots of competitor caravans and workshops, in that goods rarely run out or are desperately wanted leading to a bit of stagnation of prices.

In my current game there is a bit of a cold war going on, where Kurzait are not steamrolling the map anymore, Sturgia is holding its own and growing a bit. In e1.4.2 - beta making it easier to kill horses may be hampering the Kurzait, so the typical war hungry defences are not been seen. The old trick of horses from Aseria to the lovely guys in the west of the map who love horses also is not as profitable as 1.4.1.

 

[Dionaea]

The old trick of horses from Aseria to the lovely guys in the west of the map who love horses also is not as profitable as 1.4.1.

Yep noticed this, hence why I've adopted the profession of Javelin maker/merchant, tedious and definately not as fun as traveling the map to trade horses and attack the occasional bandit group and hideout on the way, but at least it's profitable

 

[Nakh]

This will be fixed soon enough. Both weird prices and javelin-based economy. Developer in 1.4.2 patchnotes thread mentioned they discovered bug, which caused strange prices behavior.