Have the Tanneries been nerfed?

[mexxico]

Are your running around with a huge army ready to attack whoever is besieging your castle right after you escaped when that person soundly defeated you in battle 2 days earlier?

Don't think so, hence it's a cheat because the AI lord/lady doesn't operate under the same conditions you do

I did not understand. What do you mean by AI is cheating? What AI is doing that you cannot do? When they escape from prison they start with 10% of party size filled with troops only and as @scarface52 mentioned they can get troops from 2 slots ahead for now (means that if normally they can get 1st slot only they can get from slots 1-2-3, its like they are playing at easiest recruiting mode. It will be removed when initial lord-notable relations are set). These are the only cheats AI have in your scenario. If you see AI lord with hundreds of troops they probably took them from garrison or recruited from villages.

About tannery :
Tanneries convert 3 hides into leather. Each hide is 60 denars in average and each leather is 140 denars in average. So in normal prices they make 140 - 60 = 80 denars for each conversation. 3 conversation means 240 denars of profit. This shop has 25 denars of operation cost. So average expected profit per day is 215 denars. However in towns with tanneries there is higher hide consumption and leather is in market with big amounts. So hide prices are going up than normal and leather prices are going down than normal. Thats why you cannot make expected 215 denars but your daily profit is generally about 100 denars. Currently in normal situation one workshop make about 100 denars of daily profit, this means they pay their cost in about 2 years. If you make a good examination and find a perfect place for your shop your profit can go up to 200 denars a day. So your workshop can pay its cost in first year (82 x 200 = 16400 > 13400). Tanneries had a bug previously thats why they were making 300+ profit daily. In this scenario all players were making tannery in any town without making price and production examination. Probably you made your tanneries in settlements where hides are expensive. So your daily profit is less. I will work on to increase average shop incomes to 100-150-200s from 50-100-150s. I know average 50-100 profit is less and it should be a bit more.

 

[Nakh]

So, 200 gold is expected average income from well placed workshop. This is nice piece of info, hope in next patch notes it will not be reduced to 80.

 

[Dionaea]

About tannery :
Tanneries convert 3 hides into leather. Each hide is 60 denars in average and each leather is 140 denars in average. So in normal prices they make 140 - 60 = 80 denars for each conversation. 3 conversation means 240 denars of profit. This shop has 25 denars of operation cost. So average expected profit per day is 215 denars. However in towns with tanneries there is higher hide consumption and leather is in big amounts. So hide prices are going up and leather prices are going down. Thats why you cannot make 215 denars but according to prices your daily profit is about 100 denars. In normal situation one workshop make about 100 denars of daily profit. If you make a good examination and find a perfect place for your shop your profit can go up to 200 denars a day. So your workshop can pay its cost in first year. Tanneries had a bug previously thats why they were making 300+ profit daily. In this scenario all players were making tannery without making price and production examination. Probably you made your tanneries in settlements where hides are expensive. So your daily profit is less. I will work on to increase average shop incomes to 100-150s from 50-100s.

Thanks for replying mexxico, I specifically built a tannery in a city that had 2 villages supplying hogs and cows to provide hides. so you'd asume the price for those is low.

So in theory what I have to do is build a workshop and then flood the market with the raw materials like in the past? Although one can wonder if the extra 100 is really worth it to take the loss on buying the raw material somewhere and eventually selling it at a loss in the workshop city to have a temporary potential 100 gold extra profit.

Considering grain and flax are cheap resources does this mean the best workshops now are the brewery and the linen workshop? (like they where before?) provided you flood the market with grain and flax to keep the raw material price as low as possible, and you then buy the Ale and linen to increase the sale price and then go sell it at whatever town pays a good amount for those? making it more expensive and rare will that increase the profit from the workshops?

Because in that case I'm starting a new campaign and will leave the north because Asserai and Vlandia territory are suddenly a lot more valuable.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

Hope they will not destroy game in that way, now with 300-400 profits i have over half milion denars. No need to buff tanneries more, feel lil bit cheating anyway

I feel like my wealth comes from plundering 10k per fight, and having lots of fights. Nerfing workshops will just make the early game more tedious than it is already. People will put money into caravans instead, which is basically just losing a companion for extra cash.

 

[mexxico]

Thanks for replying mexxico, I specifically built a tannery in a city that had 2 villages supplying hogs and cows to provide hides. so you'd asume the price for those is low.

So in theory what I have to do is build a workshop and then flood the market with the raw materials like in the past? Although one can wonder if the extra 100 is really worth it to take the loss on buying the raw material somewhere and eventually selling it at a loss in the workshop city to have a temporary potential 100 gold extra profit.

Considering grain and flax are cheap resources does this mean the best workshops now are the brewery and the linen workshop? (like they where before?) provided you flood the market with grain and flax to keep the raw material price as low as possible, and you then buy the Ale and linen to increase the sale price and then go sell it at whatever town pays a good amount for those? making it more expensive and rare will that increase the profit from the workshops?

Because in that case I'm starting a new campaign and will leave the north because Asserai and Vlandia territory are suddenly a lot more valuable.

Most profitable workhop changes according to prices at town you built your shop.

several examples :

brewery converts 1 grain (average price is 10) into 1 beers (average price is 45) (8 times a day)
olive press converts 1 olives (30) into 1 oil (120) (4 times a day)
pottery shop converts 1 clay (20) to 1 pottery (80) (4 times a day)
wine press converts 1 grape (20) to 1 wine (75) (4 times a day)
smithy converts 1 iron (50) to 2 tools (80) (4 times a day)
wood workshop converts 1 wood (25) to 1 tools (80) (4 times a day)
tannery converts 1 hides (60) to 1 leather (140) (3 times a day)
silversmithy converts 1 silver (150) to 2 jewelry (250) (1 times a day)

Problem is in towns you built workshops they change item prices so you cannot make exactly (output average price - input average price) x conversation amount profit. Will try to make them more profitable in next patches.

 

[Nakh]

brewery converts 1 grain (average price is 10) into 1 beers (average price is 45) (8 times a day)

So, if grain supply is good and beer price around 40, brewery must generate around 2o0 gold of profit, right?

 

[mexxico]

So, if grain supply is good and beer price around 40, brewery must generate around 2o0 gold of profit, right?

If you see grain price is 12 as example and beer price is 42 then from each conversation shop will make about 26-27 profit (3-4 is lost due to trade penalty = buy sell price difference). So yes if situation is like that you should make about 26 x 8 = 208 per day from one shop, 25 is daily shop expense so net profit should be around 180.

Example :

 

[Nakh]

If you see grain price is 12 as example and beer price is 42 then from each conversation shop will make about 26-27 profit (3-4 is lost due to trade penalty = buy sell price difference). So yes if situation is like that you should make about 26 x 8 = 208 per day from one shop, 25 is daily shop expense so net profit should be around 180.

And how it's possible for OP to have income of 33 from Tannery? He must buy skins for 90 and sell leather for 110 to have such results. and I never ever saw leather price so low and hides so high at the same time.

 

[Dodgy]

Just when I thought "War fest seems to be fixed, conversation bug hotfixed, let's start a new campaign" I work my ass off to get the money for a workshop thinking it will pay for the wages of my small warband of about 25 men.
Result: barely any profit at all.
Time to wait again for "next patch" and hope nothing else has been broken or nerfed to oblivion in the meanwhile.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Just when I thought "War fest seems to be fixed, conversation bug hotfixed, let's start a new campaign" I work my ass off to get the money for a workshop thinking it will pay for the wages of my small warband of about 25 men.
Result: barely any profit at all.
Time to wait again for "next patch" and hope nothing else has been broken or nerfed to oblivion in the meanwhile.

If you read the posts above you, it seems like you put it in the wrong location. Whoops

 

[The Auditor]

If selling workshop produce to the town automatically is going to be nerfed to 200 a day (which doesn't seem unreasonable given it is just passive income once you click "buy workshop") it would be great to have an option to "warehouse" some of your production rather and it all being auto-sold (perhaps for a small storage cost). It would make it more interesting in a trade campaign to be able to haul some of your own produce and make a profit in a faraway town. If you just want war and can't be bothered and are living of loot (which i have no problem with either) you can just leave it to auto-sell as a low level passive income. Not sure how or if that would be part of trade xp gain but would be nice in a sandbox to be able to do this.

 

[Dabos37]

@mexxico thanks for the info. Have you plans to reduce equipment costs now that income is getting reduced?

 

[Dionaea]

Most profitable workhop changes according to prices at town you built your shop.

several examples :

brewery converts 1 grain (average price is 10) into 1 beers (average price is 45) (8 times a day)
olive press converts 1 olives (30) into 1 oil (120) (4 times a day)
pottery shop converts 1 clay (20) to 1 pottery (80) (4 times a day)
wine press converts 1 grape (20) to 1 wine (75) (4 times a day)
smithy converts 1 iron (50) to 2 tools (80) (4 times a day)
wood workshop converts 1 wood (25) to 1 tools (80) (4 times a day)
tannery converts 1 hides (60) to 1 leather (140) (3 times a day)
silversmithy converts 1 silver (150) to 2 jewelry (250) (1 times a day)

Problem is in towns you built workshops they change item prices so you cannot make exactly (output average price - input average price) x conversation amount profit. Will try to make them more profitable in next patches.

Thank you for the in depth reply

And how it's possible for OP to have income of 33 from Tannery? He must buy skins for 90 and sell leather for 110 to have such results. and I never ever saw leather price so low and hides so high at the same time.

It got a bit more over time but yeah, my workshops aren't doing too well.

I'm going back to what I used to do and buy workshops that need the cheapest raw materials and then deflate the prices of the raw material by flooding the market with the raw materials and then inflate the value of the output product buy buying that in bulk and selling it far far away It used to work ok for me until Tannery's where just so much better

Also I posted this before but here's a map someone posted on reddit when the game was out a week or so of all the raw material locations in Calradia It's not entirely acurate anymore I think, but a lot of it is still correct and you can always go and investigate interesting workshop locations

 

[mexxico]

@mexxico thanks for the info. Have you plans to reduce equipment costs now that income is getting reduced?

After everything is balanced at game it will not be easy to make millions of denar as in old/first days so equipment prices can go down too but I am not final decision maker at that issue.

 

[AfLIcTeD]

Looks like breweries will be the best workshops now. Grain is everywhere. **** shouldn't have said that.

 

[eddiemccandless]

After everything is balanced at game it will not be easy to make millions of denar as in old/first days so equipment prices can go down too but I am not final decision maker at that issue.

Thanks for sharing this information with us! I am wondering if there are plans to add meaningful long term gold sinks that could help add depth to the game. An example that comes to mind is custom knighthood orders from the Warband mod Prophesy of Pendor, where you had custom troops that you could outfit with good gear by spending large amounts of money. Their wages as high level troops would also be high, so ultimately building an army of them was an ambitious but attainable goal that gave players something to work for later in the game.

I feel that right now the snowballing in income is caused by the fact that there isn't much to use the money on, plus high equipment prices actually tend to make that worse because you can make a lot of money from looting. A suggestion that I have seen mentioned by a few people is to reduce equipment value and increase troop wages, and I think that that would help. But it would be nice if there was something different to work towards to spice the game (not necessarily custom troops, that's just the first thing I thought about).

 

[nyarlathotep1975]

nerfing tanneries is totally ok. they were over the top compared to other workshops. but what i dont like is the overall attempt to put as much grind as possible in the game. u grind for exp, relation, access to units, money and so on. this is only my personal oppinion and no one has to agree, but i do not enjoy the direction the game is going right now. extending the time u put in a game by adding grind instead of content seems like a cheap solution. i hope they will rethink this.

 

[Dabos37]

After everything is balanced at game it will not be easy to make millions of denar as in old/first days so equipment prices can go down too but I am not final decision maker at that issue.

Take in mind that high cost for equipment is one of the reasons because we are making tons of money.

Getting 15-20K (just from loot) after every battle is pretty common. This is probably the best income source when we think how easy is to defeat lords without getting almost losses and we can farm them without problems.

Thanks for answer, as always.

 

[Theofilos]

Grind if its funny and not too huge is ok but fighting looters forever is NOT funny.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Grind if its funny and not too huge is ok but fighting looters forever is NOT funny.

I think it's funny that we have to do it. Definitely not fun though!