Have Swadian infantry ever had throwing weapons?

[SteveO]

I can't remember.  If they don't, they should get some.  Fighting archers is pretty difficult since you can't catch up with them as they kite you endlessly. 

Best you can do is try to stab them with the awlpike but since that requires losing the shield, the archer just tilda watches you til you pull it out then turns around and shoots you since you're now entirely defenseless. 


Do the cavalry even get throwing weapons?  I think they at least get darts.  How can a rider use a dart but not an infantryman?  Do they not have darts in taverns and only the rich people get to play or something? 

 

[Doloth]

I'd say its more of an oversight on the devs part, as what thrown weapon currently implemented would fit with the swadians

 

[Commodore_Frank]

Swadian infantry used to be able to choose javelins until about a month ago. It didn't affect me so much before, since they could buy a pike for cavalry still, but now that they have the shorter, far more expensive Awlpike, I'm starting to miss them as an anti-cavalry weapon. I can live without them for anti-infantry purposes as a Swadian, though.

 

[Mabons]

They were taken away. I think it is right. Swadian infantry should be powerful swordsmen, nothing more.

 

[SteveO]

Swadian infantry used to be able to choose javelins until about a month ago. It didn't affect me so much before, since they could buy a pike for cavalry still, but now that they have the shorter, far more expensive Awlpike, I'm starting to miss them as an anti-cavalry weapon. I can live without them for anti-infantry purposes as a Swadian, though.

Their anti-cavalry aspect doesn't interest me nor does the anti-infantry.  I just want to kill the damn archers that are kiting me with no choice but to follow hoping they slip up (if I back up, they just advance).

I'd say its more of an oversight on the devs part, as what thrown weapon currently implemented would fit with the swadians

War darts?  Most cultures had some form of the game 'darts' to my knowledge, though I can't say I've done extensive research on the subject.

 

[Phallas]

well if you want to be historic about then the nords should also get crossbows. after all the Normans brang them to England.

Archers are support troops. They are not 1 on 1 fighters, they work most effectively when attention is not placed on them.  So if an archer doesn't want the team to get massacred and be left alone then they should push forward and melee when necessary , not linger like a tumor. Do not get me started on horse archers.

But alas many archers seem to think that if they can just get that extra meter of distance on the enemy they will be victorious.

My point is there is nothing you can do, if you give someone an option between fight or flight there are those who will choose the latter, no matter how futile it is.

 

[SteveO]

That's..not at all what this topic is about. 


Talking about the ability for archers to out run the Swadian infantry and kite them endlessly and there being nothing the infantry can do about it since they lack any throwing weapons.

 

[Narduiran]

I think the ranged problem for Swadia annoys a lot of people, me included. Whenever you're facing Nord veterans, Vaegir spearmen, or Rhodok pikemen, they pretty much wear you down from a distance with their ranged weapons.

That combined with their pretty good melee abilities make them very dangerous because if you are going 2h, you're ****ed from the ranged spam, and if you are lucky to get in melee range unscathed, then you are facing very good weapons to counter you.

If you are going 1h, your shield will get blown to smithereens before you even engage in combat. If you're lucky to get in melee range, you are facing 3 factions who have weapons with an advantage against your shield.

I found it VERY challenging to even get to a fight on even grounds when people realized that Swadia can do jack **** against short range thrown weapons. it really requires all your dodging skill and luck to get there in one piece.

And then!!! Vaegir archers get freaking 2h axes! So they kite you, wearing your shield down even faster than before, and when you get in range, boom, they finish it off in one axe hit. Then it's good game for you unless you're a mad good manual blocker.

 

[Phallas]

That's..not at all what this topic is about. 


Talking about the ability for archers to out run the Swadian infantry and kite them endlessly and there being nothing the infantry can do about it since they lack any throwing weapons.

Duh?  How the hell is a throwing wep going to help? How often do people keep there throwing weps they are lost very early on. even if you lob a few after they are lost you are back at square one. not to mention the chance of you actually hitting an archer that has a an arrow in the air every second.

and BTW you have to have a shield plus 1handed wep or else you are doomed when some one throws or projects something at you. Be dynamic my boy.

 

[The Harmonizer]

I see no problem with Swadia playing darts.
The dart is not a very powerfull ranged weapon but it still has it's uses against unshielded infantry and ranged opponents.
The awlpike is a good tool versus cavalry but it does leave the wielder exposed to all sorts of nasty things flying at him.

Swadia is still a powerfull faction in it's own right and I think that adding trowing weapons up to wardarts is not going to change much in gamebalance/gameplay for Swadian players.

 

[SteveO]

Duh?  How the hell is a throwing wep going to help? How often do people keep there throwing weps they are lost very early on. even if you lob a few after they are lost you are back at square one. not to mention the chance of you actually hitting an archer that has a an arrow in the air every second.

Not all of us throw our throwing weapons into the wind.  Some of use conserve them.  And how is a throwing weapon going to help?  The archer is 10 feet in front of you running away so as to out distance enough to pull off another shot.  While he's running, you can throw a dart at him and make him stutter and lose a bit of ground as well as health.  When you run out, you pick up the ones you just threw. 

It's not perfect, since you must be stationary to have any degree of accuracy with throwing weapons, thus giving the archer more time to get further away, but it's better than having NO alternative and being completely at the mercy of the archer or another teammate intervening, at which point (unless it's cavalry or another archer) the archer just has to kite two Swads now. 


And shelter isn't really an option either.  If you get to the ruins, the archer can shoot you from the doorway.  You can hide in the niche in the back, but the distance between the point you have to hide so as to not get shot from the doorway and the point where the archer would come in and shoot you is enough so that you can't run up and hit the archer in time before he just turns and runs outside the ruins.

and BTW you have to have a shield plus 1handed wep or else you are doomed when some one throws or projects something at you. Be dynamic my boy.

I do use a shield, but shields eventually break to arrows.

 

[Vornne]

I like the swadian infantry as they are now, they've always been too good before this. Making them rely on their crossbowmen and cavalry for some things is good, in my opinion.

 

[Gabeed]

Swadian infantry are meant to be huge, unwieldy bastards with heavy armor and a gigantic sword.  They aren't meant to have throwing weapons--it's just not their style.

 

[Orion]

Swadian infantry are meant to be huge, unwieldy bastards with heavy armor and a gigantic sword.  They aren't meant to have throwing weapons--it's just not their style.

Quoted for truth.

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

Indeed Swandians are sword users, so obviously the only solution here is to give them throwing swords 

Kidding of course, don't hurt me. But really I wouldn't mind seeing the Swandians get something to help them out a bit. If they are supposed to be unwieldy tanks maybe make heavy armor slightly more accessible to them. Make mail for them affordable.

 

[PsykoOps]

Aaah... the kiting endlessly thing again. Now it's not the speed anymore. First of all, a situation where inf goes against ranged alone is rare enough. Then you add the fact that often there is an objective that you could choose to pursue. Then add the fact that archers cant really outrun anyone and still have enough time to turn and shoot unless they're naked. Also then there is the time limit which makes the whole enlessly go away for good.
If you want to add your suggestion dont use the kiting excuse. I'm all for ranged for swadian infantry but the whole kiting issue is bullocks.

 

[SteveO]

I'm all for ranged for swadian infantry but the whole kiting issue is bullocks.

Erm, no it really isn't. 

First of all, a situation where inf goes against ranged alone is rare enough.

Not rare at all.

Then you add the fact that often there is an objective that you could choose to pursue.

Only in siege, S&D, and CTF, of which no one really plays.  Only recompense is when (if) Master of the Field kicks in. 

Then add the fact that archers cant really outrun anyone and still have enough time to turn and shoot unless they're naked.

Not true at all.  Just watched an archer kite someone while wearing leather.

Also then there is the time limit which makes the whole enlessly go away for good.

Because everyone just loves running after someone for 5 minutes.

 

[Phallas]

Indeed Swandians are sword users, so obviously the only solution here is to give them throwing swords 

Kidding of course, don't hurt me. But really I wouldn't mind seeing the Swandians get something to help them out a bit. If they are supposed to be unwieldy tanks maybe make heavy armor slightly more accessible to them. Make mail for them affordable.

Swadians are the most powerful IMO , there cav , their range, there infantry. They really don't require throwing weps .

go find a crossbow on the ground,  aim it at an archer, but don't fire,  dodge hits untill you get close enough to be 100 percent accurate. Most often archers wont fire unless they gurantee they will hit you when you have a xbow pointed at them.

 

[SteveO]

Likely the archer is going to hit you long before you get that close, however the crossbow idea is a good one.  I hadn't thought of that (assuming infantry can even use them?  Never tried it). 

But that's assuming you find a loaded one (which crossbowmen rarely die with a chambered shot in my experience since most deaths are due to static reloading) and that a crossbow is even handy in the first place.

 

[Narduiran]

I play swadian infantry a lot. By that I mean, a hell of a lot. Even when we face ranged factions. And getting to an archer is mighty difficult. Shields break too easily, even the higher tier ones. So personally, I think at least the top tier Swadian shields need to have better resistance since it's their only defense against range, being unable to attack from range.