Gunner (Imperial Recruits) OP?

[Horny and Raging]

Just wondering, it seems like the gunners are VERY powerful add on, 10 gunners imperial recruits
can pretty much own 10 knights if they stand on a hill and are protected by a spear wall
sure the spear wall take casualties but the knights are pwned... big time...

I think it adds a somewhat "cheating" like factor to the game, 100 gunners = you win every single battle, both open field and siege battles =\
i think something should be done... maybe to make the gunners as elite units and not recruits,
reality is that during the medieval era, gunners were VERY REAR (spacial elite units)
they were mercenary's, and very expansive once too (maybe to change it so that you cant recruits them? only to hire?)
anyways, great mod, love it =]

 

[Almalexia]

Just wondering, it seems like the gunners are VERY powerful add on, 10 gunners imperial recruits
can pretty much own 10 knights if they stand on a hill and are protected by a spear wall
sure the spear wall take casualties but the knights are pwned... big time...

I think it adds a somewhat "cheating" like factor to the game, 100 gunners = you win every single battle, both open field and siege battles =\
i think something should be done... maybe to make the gunners as elite units and not recruits,
reality is that during the medieval era, gunners were VERY REAR (spacial elite units)
they were mercenary's, and very expansive once too (maybe to change it so that you cant recruits them? only to hire?)
anyways, great mod, love it =]

Most of the time they are not protected by a spear wall, and are generally innacurate, so once they fire, they take a while to reload, in which case they are slaughtered.

And this isn't the medieval era; this is the Rennaissance.

 

[Horny and Raging]

Most of the time they are not protected by a spear wall, and are generally innacurate, so once they fire, they take a while to reload, in which case they are slaughtered.

And this isn't the medieval era; this is the Rennaissance.

maybe i am wrong here but during the "Renaissance" era they didnt used swords or shields any more
only pole arm weapons, rifles, and 2h swords that were used mainly by unmounted knights? (mounted used poles)
axes and swords\shilds were used mainly by rebels and barbarians
but maybe i am wrong

p.s
the range those gunners have really overcome the long reload penalty

 

[Venitius]

D'Sparil was drunk while creating this mod. So that's why there are Papacy-Romans, Prussians, Russians of Ivan the Terrible, the Ottomans, the HRE and the Spaniards in this mod.

 

[Corvid]

maybe i am wrong here but during the "Renaissance" era they didn't used swords or shields any more
only pole arm weapons, rifles, and 2h swords that were used mainly by unmounted knights? (mounted used poles)
axes and swords\Shields were used mainly by rebels and barbarians
but maybe i am wrong

p.s
the range those gunners have really overcome the long reload penalty

Yes you are wrong.
It's true that the weapons of choice tended more and more towards pikeformations with units of gunners but sword are used by nearly all troops up until the industrial revolution.
The Spanish who influenced the Laurians barely used pikes at all and still used mainly sword and shield armed troops for melee. Mainly to guard their gunners though.
The Holy Roman Empire who influenced the Swadians did use mainly pikes and gunners but no landsknecht would leave home without his katzbalger (a shortsword) at his side. Anyone who has fought in a line of pikes know that they are just heavy toothpicks if the enemy gets under it's range.

During the renaissance the 2 handed weapons more or less were replaced by lighter arm is most armies. The only army I know of to actually employ them in grater numbers and on a regularly basis are the Holy Roman Empire. The different zweihanders were not employed to kill humans but for cutting down pikes the enemy pikeline.

Nerdy info: It was those guys who cut pikes who gave name to the "Lost Hope" that all armies used after. They are an armies convicts given a dangerous mission to "clear the record" or by those needing cash. Also in particularly the English army, leading a "Lost Hope" unit into the breach of a hostile city usually gave an instant fieldpromotion to the commanding officer. Odds of surviving unmaimed or at all were slim at times though...

 

[Almalexia]

You mean a 'Forlorn Hope', right? Pretty much a band of crazy fools, but brave fools none the less. 

 

[Corvid]

You are correct =).

I´m translating and thinking with my ass.

 

[Danath]

Spanish pikemen's equipment included a short sword, though most of them tried to get a longer one.

 

[Corvid]

Spanish pikemen's equipment included a short sword, though most of them tried to get a longer one.

Good to see they were smarter than I knew. What were their swords called?

 

[Almalexia]

Backswords perhaps? It depends. Would probably want a shorter type of sword, ebcause if they are throught the pikewall, they are right in your face.

 

[Venitius]

Didn't the landsknetchts (or however you spell it) use katzbalgers (or however you spell it) as a sidearm? It's a shame you can't make it certain that polearms are used as a primary weapon in M&B.

 

[Horny and Raging]

Didn't the landsknetchts (or however you spell it) use katzbalgers (or however you spell it) as a sidearm? It's a shame you can't make it certain that polearms are used as a primary weapon in M&B.

the worst part of it is when your gunners charge with swords instead of shooting... now this is a sad sight...
i just lost to a merchant, had an 38 men army vs his 20 caravan guards and some melee's
i though that if i order my "archers" to charge, they shoot first until ran out of ammo then charge, i was wrong -.-

 

[Almalexia]

Ummm... I dont really get how you came to that conclusion. When you 'charge', you are usually using your momentum from sprinting to put extra force into your melee weapon upon impact with the enemy. And gunners dont really shoot that well on the move (heck, they dont even shoot that well when they are standing still).

Thus, the logical conclusion would be to press 'hold this position', and if there are cavalry, 'stand closer'.

 

[DSparil]

Didn't the landsknetchts (or however you spell it) use katzbalgers (or however you spell it) as a sidearm? It's a shame you can't make it certain that polearms are used as a primary weapon in M&B.

the worst part of it is when your gunners charge with swords instead of shooting... now this is a sad sight...
i just lost to a merchant, had an 38 men army vs his 20 caravan guards and some melee's
i though that if i order my "archers" to charge, they shoot first until ran out of ammo then charge, i was wrong -.-

Those are just horrible tactics on your part.

 

[Danath]

Spanish pikemen's equipment included a short sword, though most of them tried to get a longer one.

Good to see they were smarter than I knew. What were their swords called?

No special name, just swords of about 1m so it was easy to unsheathe. Almost all soldiers had a sword.
Full equipped pikeman. The shield had a "hook" to hang it on the belt

 

[Horny and Raging]

Didn't the landsknetchts (or however you spell it) use katzbalgers (or however you spell it) as a sidearm? It's a shame you can't make it certain that polearms are used as a primary weapon in M&B.

the worst part of it is when your gunners charge with swords instead of shooting... now this is a sad sight...
i just lost to a merchant, had an 38 men army vs his 20 caravan guards and some melee's
i though that if i order my "archers" to charge, they shoot first until ran out of ammo then charge, i was wrong -.-

Those are just horrible tactics on your part.

yeah well the battle controls are very messy... I prefer to just not give orders and let my soldiers to charge
yet with this mod, I was forced to use the "hold position" order, as gunners are not really an assault unit
I also tend to order cavalry to "follow me" as I go around to flank the enemy, but that is only if I play mounted...
Lately I start playing as a skirmisher, so I focused on "firearms" skill and commanding (sort of field commander)
where I dont take much of a role in the battle, just as support with my rifle.

 

[Almalexia]

Didn't the landsknetchts (or however you spell it) use katzbalgers (or however you spell it) as a sidearm? It's a shame you can't make it certain that polearms are used as a primary weapon in M&B.

the worst part of it is when your gunners charge with swords instead of shooting... now this is a sad sight...
i just lost to a merchant, had an 38 men army vs his 20 caravan guards and some melee's
i though that if i order my "archers" to charge, they shoot first until ran out of ammo then charge, i was wrong -.-

Those are just horrible tactics on your part.

yeah well the battle controls are very messy... I prefer to just not give orders and let my soldiers to charge
yet with this mod, I was forced to use the "hold position" order, as gunners are not really an assault unit

Gasp! The horror!

 

[Horny and Raging]

Spanish pikemen's equipment included a short sword, though most of them tried to get a longer one.

Good to see they were smarter than I knew. What were their swords called?

No special name, just swords of about 1m so it was easy to unsheathe. Almost all soldiers had a sword.
Full equipped pikeman. The shield had that "hook" to hang it on the belt

what is this thing between his legs?
is it a large coffee bean?

 

[Corvid]

Didn't the landsknetchts (or however you spell it) use katzbalgers (or however you spell it) as a sidearm? It's a shame you can't make it certain that polearms are used as a primary weapon in M&B.

Landsknecht, Katzbalger.
Yepp, the balger was more or less a landsknecht trademarkweapon.
There was a slightly longer and heavier variant in use by some and there was always the odd grossemesser.

Gasp! The horror!

 

[Corvid]

what is this thing between his legs?
is it a large coffee bean?

Erhm... The shield?