Guard

[Ling*]

Captain Mode Perspective: Guard is probably ranked as the 2nd to last place shock unit in the game, only barely better than Battanian savages due to their superior armor. All shock troops deserve a nerf, however Guards are pretty terrible in comparison to current other shock troops, including peasant class shock troops from other factions.

 

[vfkaseke]

Captain Mode Perspective: Guard is probably ranked as the 2nd to last place shock unit in the game, only barely better than Battanian savages due to their superior armor. All shock troops deserve a nerf, however Guards are pretty terrible in comparison to current other shock troops, including peasant class shock troops from other factions.

Battanian savages at least have the mace. Guards can barely take out a shield unit, and is unable to beat pretty much any other shock unit, unless it is the savage.

 

[Infokrieger]

is OP

 

[flashn00b]

Gonna bump this rather old thread cuz the Tabar is absolutely useless when you can just pick the Sturdy perk and either the Two-handed Sword or Bardiche. I feel like a different weapon type could be introduced rather than just have "Bardiche but worse".

Obviously, my suggestion would involve replacing the Sturdy perk with Improved Armor similarly to the Vlandian Voulgier, though I do wonder if it'd be worth it to replace the Tabar with a quarterstaff of sorts. Something like a faster two-handed blunt weapon that can't crush through blocks, but could also be used as a one-handed thrusting weapon should the guard find a shield off a dead player. I guess 83 speed + whatever modifiers are attached to multiplayer 2h weapons would make it just a smidge faster than the Aserai Heavy Mace?

 

[Karnage King of Archery]

The whole point of a 2h is to favor offense over defense, giving them a shield is a bit retarded if theyre intended to be a 2h unit, this is what made the vaegir infantry unique was they were more like glass cannons and thats what makes these units what they are i see no reason to change the setup of rock paper scissors with archer sword n board and 2handers to make 2 handers any easier than they already are.

 

[flashn00b]

The whole point of a 2h is to favor offense over defense, giving them a shield is a bit retarded if theyre intended to be a 2h unit, this is what made the vaegir infantry unique was they were more like glass cannons and thats what makes these units what they are i see no reason to change the setup of rock paper scissors with archer sword n board and 2handers to make 2 handers any easier than they already are.

A quarterstaff wouldn't let the Guard spawn with the shield but rather have an alternate means of attack should they successfully pry a shield off a dead player's hands.

To further clarify on my suggestion, it's apparent to me that Improved Armor's a useless perk since you can get the same effect by picking the Sturdy perk and mixing it with the Bardiche or Two-handed sabre. For most intents and purposes, my suggestion for replacing the Tabar with a quarterstaff would still give him a one-handed weapon in the same sense that the Khan's Guard's glaive is a one-handed weapon (It's still wielded two-handed due to the unit not spawning with a shield).

Essentially, Improved Armor won't be a Perk 1 perk anymore and will replace Sturdy. Meanwhile, the Perk 1 perks would look like this:

Bardiche - Effective against shields, can't thrust like the other two weapons
Two-handed Sword - Fastest attack speed but slightly less reach
Quarter-staff - Two-handed blunt weapon (actually a bastard polearm). Much faster than the Battanian maul, but is only about as strong as the Khuzait Heavy Mace.

It's no secret that Aserai gets steamrolled by heavy infantry units in Captain Mode, and there's very little utility in the Improved Armor perk due to the Tabar being the Bardiche but worse.

 

[Karnage King of Archery]

Was never talking to you.

 

[Snorri]

new armors (added in 1.7.0) are nice, saddly multi is so bugged that i can't play to earn loot to buy them

 

[flashn00b]

Because heavily armored units can still make short work of Aserai, I still think this is a good idea:

Base Weapon: Effectively none* (see below)

Perk 1
Improved Armor replaced with Quarterstaff
- Swing Speed: 87
- Swing Damage: 55 Blunt
- Thrust Speed: 90
- Thrust Damage: 24 Blunt
- Length: 147
- Is a Bastard Polearm that is used two-handed by default, but will become a one-handed spear when equipping a shield

Perk 2
Sturdy replaced with Improved Armor
- Does basically the same thing, but improves visibility of an armor perk

*If all Perk 1 Perks are a perk weapon, then a unit will effectively not have a base weapon, similarly to how the Tribal Warrior has a Flyssa as his base weapon, but you'll never see it in-game due to all perks replacing them

 

[AoC]

It's funny how Guard is worse than Warrior once it grabs Warrior's weapon despite costing 130.

Honestly, the class should serve role of both medium infantry and 2h class. Give them instead of armor in first row a shield with two different 1h weapons (sword and mace perhaps?). Give them armor in second row.

 

[flashn00b]

IMO, i think having the Guard work as a shock troop is still fine. What i'm not too fond of is that they have Improved Armor twice, and there's no reason to use "Bardiche but worse" when you can pick Bardiche/Sturdy or 2h Sword/Sturdy.

I still like my idea of giving the Guard a bastard polearm as a blunt weapon

 

[AoC]

IMO, i think having the Guard work as a shock troop is still fine. What i'm not too fond of is that they have Improved Armor twice, and there's no reason to use "Bardiche but worse" when you can pick Bardiche/Sturdy or 2h Sword/Sturdy.

I still like my idea of giving the Guard a bastard polearm as a blunt weapon

With no heavy infantry they are the only faction without either medium infantry and heavy infantry. Which isn't right, so Guard could serve the role of medium infantry like Khazuit Spearman.

I see no problem with at least some alternative to playing just Warrior as infantry player, no other faction offer so little choices for non-throwing infantry players.

 

[flashn00b]

With no heavy infantry they are the only faction without either medium infantry and heavy infantry. Which isn't right, so Guard could serve the role of medium infantry like Khazuit Spearman.

I see no problem with at least some alternative to playing just Warrior as infantry player, no other faction offer so little choices for non-throwing infantry players.

Still, not having heavy armor seems to be part of Aserai's identity. I think it'd probably be more productive to compensate by making them more anti-armor so as to preserve cultural identity of the faction while still making their units more viable.

Actually, I wonder if there's a conversation to be had on the Skirmisher thread about blunt weapons.

 

[AoC]

Still, not having heavy armor seems to be part of Aserai's identity. I think it'd probably be more productive to compensate by making them more anti-armor so as to preserve cultural identity of the faction while still making their units more viable.

Actually, I wonder if there's a conversation to be had on the Skirmisher thread about blunt weapons.

But Guards don't have heavy armor either, so it's not even touching the heavy armor issue. There is no downside for making Guards warrior+, as every other faction have it's base melee unit made obsolete with clear upgrade path. All except Aserai for some reason.

Or make veteran perk that give them 81 speed when using melee weapon given along with shield and mace?