Graphics - add your suggestions

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alphabeta77

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Hi guys,

I've been hired to develop the graphics for this game and help to improve the feel/look/atmosphere etc of this already tremendously enjoyable game.

Having browsed through these forums I have noticed many excellent suggestions of new buildings, weapon objects, scenery etc etc.

I thought it might be productive to 'pick' the brains, imaginations and 'desires' of you all to gather an idea of what you envisage.

There are of course limitations on space and sheer development time, but I'd like to produce art and graphics that truly immerses you all in an already engrossing game.

So I'll be monitoring this thread and if any of your ideas are a) feasible! and b) good then I'll look to incorporate them as best I can.

So really just post away and tell me what you don't like about the current graphics, what you do like, graphics glitches, what you'd like to see improved, what new buildings, what objects, what textures - EVERYTHING!

Dream away and I'll do the very best I can.

If I do take any of your ideas on I'll try and keep you posted on progress too.

Thanks very much and I look forward to your suggestions!
 
They are quite good as they are but;

Have you played Age of Wonders 2 or the HOMM series? I would take a peek at those and see what ideas could be used.

While i like the "Ukrainaian steppes" parts i think there should be areas looking a bit more busy and occupied by humans. Everything from villages, farms and huts(something like the Mongols huts).

More lakes.

Oh and minor thing but a better river texture. It looks a bit "default" to me.

And btw, why not make mountains you could actually enter? Some "dwarwich analogue" group could live there :wink:.

BM
 
One thing I'd perhaps like to see is variable skins for decorative items.

For things like the Heraldric shield or armor you could find different superficial designs for the same armor. Perhaps there will be different designs and colors depending on which area you are in. This would allow you to more fully customize the look of your character.

also, more types of helmets. (Like a norman helm for example.) I'm just partial to the look, and I'm really into the dressup side of this game.

Definately make towns look more varied, and I'd also suggest making the land textures a little more interesting. (Put some variation in the plains/forest/mountains. Maybe some hills?)


EDIT: Echoing Bluesman, some map evidence of human interaction would be nice. Farm huts, fields, etc. Not that you'd be able to enter or do anything with them, but it would put the farmers in context, who currently seem to patrol but not Farm.
 
Congratulations alphabeta. After seeing the graphics you posted I'm not surprised you've been hired.

There are some good point already made. If I was going to push the game out the door tomorrow, I'd add some interesting features to the map, as mentioned, and try to give each of the city interiors a distinctive feel. A dried fish producing town might have the atmosphere of a coastal village, a town up on the steppes might have a special horse breeder, a town selling an expensive commodity might have rich merchants in its tavern, and another might be down and out -- the sort of place where it's easy to get into a bar brawl. Some might be military bases and some religious bases.

Someone mentioned adding religion as a feature of the game and I'd love to see some beautiful church or temple interiors. Sunlight streaming through stain glass windows would be great, although I don't know if it's feasable. :smile:

As for the map, it be great to see things like old ruins, towers, farms, forests, caves, villages, industries such as charcoal making, churches and tiny chapels. Just the usual sort of things. If you're going to have different buildings in different towns you might also vary the town graphic. For example, a town with a cathedral might have a little cathedral on the map, and so on. Anyway, I hope that's of some use.
 
I guess the game needs to decide on a style first. If it's going all out for realism, then research real realism rather than movie realism, so you're showing people something interesting rather than a cliched, predictable vision of how things were back then.

If it's a hybrid 'alternate universe', just take the basic themes of the period and detail it with whatever you can scrape from your imagination. Interesting flourishes and quirks. Something that'll give the game a genuine personality, like Morrowind's leftfield interpretation of the traditional dwarves and orcs cliche.

Basically, throw away every first idea. The first idea is always the one that's drawn from what you think something should be, and if you think that, so does everyone else.
 
First of all - I'm glad to see that the number of developers has increased) That surely will decrease the time that you guys need to finish the game)))

Well, in v0.623 combat animation looks MUCH better than earlier, but I still think it's quite... awkward. Characters doesn't use their body to make strikes.

Then... I currently don't like the sky, either its texture (maybe it's just low-res. Remember sky textures in Morrowind! Btw, the cloud animation could be added - it will look great!) and the way the skybox is formed - I can clearly see the lines of where one part of the sky connects to other. Maybe you should tweak this)

Next. I can see dust from horses and footmen on the arena, but I can't see it when in real combat. Well I know that there is grass everywhere and so on, but dustclouds look great! Maybe a big cloud could even tell you where from an enemy closes?..

One more thing - I don't know if it is "graphics" or "programming", but I decided to post it here). I miss inversion tracks from arrows and weapons (You know, like in BoD) - human eye can't recieve information with a big speed, so if you're looking on fast-moving object, it looks "smoothened". I know that the smoothing effect requires pixel shaders or some other videocard features, and that's why I suggest to make just inversion tracks.
This will make graphics look more realistic, I think.

I don't know if it is hard on not, but I want to see a sun shining on the edge of my two-hander)) In other words, I want reflections (at least of lightsourses) on metallic surfaces.

Well, I hope I've provided you with work) If I'll notice something else, I'll surely writeabout it here)
 
I think that the town that you start in should be changed. The layout is good, but it doesn't capture the surroundings. I think that the layout of the town should contain the river somewhere. You can perhaps recycle the town and use it in an area such as a plain.

Also you can perhaps make the town seem a little dirty (dirt and grass on wall textures); right now the game seem too..... clean :smile:
 
I'd like to see a lot of heraldry in the game, being the medieval ages and all, with knights riding into battle with banners waving in the wind. Eventually your character should also be able to pick and customize his own coat of arms from a wide selection (like Halo 2) when he is of certain rank, or import his own. The coat of arms could then be attached to tabards and shields to be worn by you or your troops if you have enough cash, and put across your banners.

I also think the Vaegir and Swadians should have their own individual sigil and banner to be able to identify them in battles and on the world map. Vaegir cities would have their banner waving above them, and the horseman that represents Vaegir armies on the world map would be holding a Vaegir banner.

I also sometimes had trouble identifying Borcha and Marnid in battle, especially against dark knights since they wore pretty much the same armour, so I gave them flat-topped helmets with the red band across and orange shields. Then I got thinking that more ornate armours would be nice in a case like this. Imagine taking a suit of plate to a master smithy to have it gilded, silvered, or enameled in many different colours, or choosing from a variety of coloured plumes to add to you or your horse's helmets. A fully customizable system where you could make some parts of your plate one colour and other parts (like studs and fastenings) another would be incredible.

New horse armours would be great as well. One thing that really bugs me is the big solid plate on the back of the charger, which looks really uncomfortable for the horse. New bardings to choose from or maybe even some Cataphract style scales would add some variety. And the ability to drape your coat of arms over your horse would add even more customizability.

EDIT: I know some of these suggestions would take a lot of work, this is more for down the road.
 
I also think the Vaegir and Swadians should have their own individual sigil and banner to be able to identify them in battles and on the world map. Vaegir cities would have their banner waving above them, and the horseman that represents Vaegir armies on the world map would be holding a Vaegir banner.

Sounds good to me, one time I accidently entered a battle with mountain bandits and Swadians (I'm a Vaegir). We destoryed the bandits but it felt strange that I was helping the enemy. (I previously had run away from a Swadian war party of around 80 where I had only 29).

A fully customizable system where you could make some parts of your plate one colour and other parts (like studs and fastenings) another would be incredible.

Aside from allowing certain parts of the armor to "change" textures, it would be too complex to place that feature into the game (not that I'm an offical rep).

New horse armours would be great as well. One thing that really bugs me is the big solid plate on the back of the charger, which looks really uncomfortable for the horse. New bardings to choose from or maybe even some Cataphract style scales would add some variety. And the ability to drape your coat of arms over your horse would add even more customizability.

All that can happen is that someone changes the model of the horses because Armagan already said that it's going to be something thats being considered in the sequel.
 
Well, here is my idea:
Make plate armor that is found on battlefield impossible to wear. (It woun't fit).
In smithy, you'll be give an option not just to trade, but to order a set of plate armor (those will not be sold), or rework a set you have into a one wearable by you or one of your companions. (Also, you may ask to repair cracked, restore rusted or reinforce your mundane armor.. but that's a side idea).
When you do, you'll be give an option about color, enamelation, gilding, etc, etc... preferably, just like 'face editor'.
Btw, it would be really nice to give battered, cracked and rusty weapons&armor separate textures to make them look so.
This way, battles can be made much more interesting:
Bandits will wear rusty, battered and plain armor, Vaegirs and Swadians - armor with different colors, and Knights will wear ornate armor.
Of course, it's not only texturer's work, but perhaps Armagan will find this idea worthy of implementing.
Oh, and new armor types for horses will be nice too.
 
Make plate armor that is found on battlefield impossible to wear. (It woun't fit).
Ugh. That's taking things too far.

And remember that these suggestions are purely graphical, Balor.
 
More varied buildings, NPC bodies, heads etc. More graphically detailed worldmap? Perhaps defensive positions for battles. Varied models for the world map cities (that is, something more like a salt mine for the salt mine, and more varied models for capitals etc).
 
Give the interiors of buildings some more detail and personality. Right now, every store looks the same, every count's castle looks the same (except for the one where you get Borcha), every tavern looks the same... and the worst part is, they're basically big, empty rooms. They still just look like placeholders.

And speaking of taverns, do something with Zendar's tavern. Why are all the patrons standing at attention like that? Where's the bar?

I definitely think these issues need to be addressed before the game is "released".
 
heh! Some great ideas being bounced around here! Thanks for all the input!

I'll try to quickly hammer and forge them all into a cohesive list!

1 - Faction styles - I think this is an excellent idea and certainly one that would 'tighten' the realism down. I'll certainly try and reflect this in any work i do - hopefully you'll KNOW when you're in swagian/vaegir territory/towns etc! Also I thought the shields, banners etc were nice ideas - something for Armagan to consider definitely.

2 - World Map - Definitely needs some work - sea texturing clearly, but mainly just tidying up and 'bringing to life'.

3 - In town maps/Xendar graphics - this is an area that we are working on - I'm currently fiddling with a 'great hall' style place where the noble and other folk will be found - I hope it'll meet your expectations! If any of you have any 'great hall' ideas or photo links to what you'd like to see, please do PM me (just to keep this thread on some kind of topic!) you're suggestions are a great help!

4 - Dirty the place - Very true - this is something that I noticed when I played it - I'm already looking at 'muddying' things up a bit - trouble is that, being a new game, not many roaming knights have stomped through the lands, so it's not surprising it's quite clean still, but the more folk that play it, the muddier it'll get - try running back and forth in the same spot on a map and you'll see it muddy up a bit. :wink: Either that or I'll need to do it myself!

5 - Sky - Definitely can be worked on - again may depend on Armagan and Ipek's 'vision' - we could have various different weathers/times, I'll wait and see - but whatever the case I'll look to remove the 'seam' noticed, can't have the sky falling on our head eh?

6 - Theme - I got the impression that Armagan is going for realism, rather than fantasy (something I thoroughly applaud) so I've already been digging out some books on medieval architecture - we're obviously limited in texture/polygon size, but I'd like to create something that'd make you all stop and stare occasionally...

7 - Religion/Church - Nice idea, I'd played with it myself, not done any sketching yet (very busy) but I'll run it by Armagan (or he can cry yay/nay if he reads this) it's not really a question of caring or not, rather balancing finishing the game sooner, or adding more content...

8 - Varying Town Graphics on Map - Again something I've considered, not something I'm 'on' yet, but I'll certainly run it by Armagan & Ipek when we come to it!

Right - please don't be offended in any way if I've missed your suggestion - just PM me - I've tried to summarise them all for easier reading (and remembering!) - I'll be coming back to this post as development progresses - so keep posting ideas - some nice ones so far that have helped a lot![/b]
 
Why not make everything moddable? Other people could then lend a hand at making more of the 3D Mesh and textures. NWN is a game with loads of available content because it's one of the most moddable RPGs around. M&B could set a new standard for modding RPGs.
 
new terrain would be cool, like if you walk onto a part of the world map that is heavily covered with tress and get into a battle, you end up fighting in a forest that is thick with trees and is nightmare for calvary. same with swamps, etc.

and if/when town and castle battles are introduced, we could use some town designs, like not a seperate design for every town, but a good amount of them. like the game could have 4 distinct town sizes, and each town size could have 3 different designs. only the 2 biggest town designs would have castles though. although having to design 12 different town maps would prob take wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to long.
 
KnZ said:
Well, in v0.623 combat animation looks MUCH better than earlier, but I still think it's quite... awkward. Characters doesn't use their body to make strikes.

If the animations are spruced up in the future it would be great if historical guards and strikes were used as inspiration. Would add a huge boost to already great combat system.

For example stances look here:
http://www.thehaca.com/essays/StancesIntro.htm
 
OK. I would like to make some suggestions as well. :smile:

Before releasing the game, we were planning to polish it a bit further, add a small storyline and be done with it. Now, after seeing the incredible support and interest from gamers, I feel that that won't be enough anymore. So, I now want to see Mount&Blade as a platform for lots of historical modules rather than a simple game. Of course we will work on the official scenario and make it as high quality as possible, but I feel that as Taleworlds team we should try to deliver a great platform on which various modules can be built rather than restrict our attention to a particular storyline and setting.

The gameplay mechanics and technology will be at the disposal of module builders. It would be great if they can use the art assets for their settings as well. They will be able to furnish interiors in different ways to achieve different effects. For example, furnished with wooden tables and chairs and animal hides, the great hall can serve as the hall of a viking king. Furnishing it with banners and curtains can create an altogether different atmosphere making it suitable for say, a french king.

alphabeta77 said:
1 - Faction styles - I think this is an excellent idea and certainly one that would 'tighten' the realism down. I'll certainly try and reflect this in any work i do - hopefully you'll KNOW when you're in swagian/vaegir territory/towns etc!...
Good idea. I believe it would be great to base the different styles on different historical cultures/timeframes.

Anyway. Welcome aboard alphabeta77. I can already see that it will be great working with you. :smile:
 
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