This all depends on the possibilities to adjust the damage types of weapons. In my opinion the message that glaives and axes do cut and not blunt is true and wrong at the same time. There are modifiers in the game, if currently used only by mods or in vanilla too I don't know, which rule the amount of damage which goes through armor unmitigated. It could be set quite differently to glaives and axes, theoretically. That's the reason why it does not make sense to balance weapons independently from armor.
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Dr-Shinobi
Well that calls making a game work and be fun if im understanding this coding right ?
if it negated the whole thing it wouldnt be fun. But yeah, i see no reason why to fix everything just because one type of weaponry is over the top beyond it to ^^Sure people want it to be more Total War like but even there they had almost same system when swords could still penetrate hvy armor types... Think people just want to complicate things for the sake of it and to fill their own desires then thinking of the whole picture...I mean look what a mess they did with all the troops now because of this and im pretty sure its also one of the reasons why the game takes such long time
最后编辑:
Again....
Above Method uses this Method:
and this Method uses this Method
and im pretty sure for Magnitude this Method (only swining though)
and so on....
Yeah sure, a mod can add a "if statment" and some new calculation, but at least for vanilla, thats it. I haven´t found any method where it says that you deal also blunt dmg with an axe e.g.
插入代码块:
public static void ComputeBlowDamage(ref AttackInformation attackInformation, ref AttackCollisionData attackCollisionData, in MissionWeapon attackerWeapon, DamageTypes damageType, float magnitude, int speedBonus, bool cancelDamage, out int inflictedDamage, out int absorbedByArmor)
{
float armorAmountFloat = attackInformation.ArmorAmountFloat;
WeaponComponentData shieldOnBack = attackInformation.ShieldOnBack;
AgentFlag victimAgentFlag = attackInformation.VictimAgentFlag;
float victimAgentAbsorbedDamageRatio = attackInformation.VictimAgentAbsorbedDamageRatio;
float damageMultiplierOfBone = attackInformation.DamageMultiplierOfBone;
float combatDifficultyMultiplier = attackInformation.CombatDifficultyMultiplier;
Vec3 collisionGlobalPosition = attackCollisionData.CollisionGlobalPosition;
bool attackBlockedWithShield = attackCollisionData.AttackBlockedWithShield;
bool collidedWithShieldOnBack = attackCollisionData.CollidedWithShieldOnBack;
bool isFallDamage = attackCollisionData.IsFallDamage;
BasicCharacterObject attackerAgentCharacter = attackInformation.AttackerAgentCharacter;
BasicCharacterObject attackerCaptainCharacter = attackInformation.AttackerCaptainCharacter;
BasicCharacterObject victimAgentCharacter = attackInformation.VictimAgentCharacter;
BasicCharacterObject victimCaptainCharacter = attackInformation.VictimCaptainCharacter;
float num = 0f;
if (!isFallDamage)
{
StrikeMagnitudeCalculationModel strikeMagnitudeModel = Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel;
float baseArmor = armorAmountFloat;
BasicCharacterObject attackerCharacter = attackerAgentCharacter;
BasicCharacterObject attackerCaptainCharacter2 = attackerCaptainCharacter;
BasicCharacterObject victimCharacter = victimAgentCharacter;
BasicCharacterObject victimCaptainCharacter2 = victimCaptainCharacter;
MissionWeapon missionWeapon = attackerWeapon;
num = strikeMagnitudeModel.CalculateAdjustedArmorForBlow(baseArmor, attackerCharacter, attackerCaptainCharacter2, victimCharacter, victimCaptainCharacter2, missionWeapon.CurrentUsageItem);
}
if (collidedWithShieldOnBack && shieldOnBack != null)
{
num += 10f;
}
float absorbedDamageRatio = victimAgentAbsorbedDamageRatio;
float num2 = Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, num, absorbedDamageRatio);
float num3 = 1f;
if (!attackBlockedWithShield && !isFallDamage)
{
num3 *= damageMultiplierOfBone;
num3 *= combatDifficultyMultiplier;
}
num2 *= num3;
inflictedDamage = MBMath.ClampInt((int)num2, 0, 2000);
int num4 = MBMath.ClampInt((int)(Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, 0f, absorbedDamageRatio) * num3), 0, 2000);
absorbedByArmor = num4 - inflictedDamage;
}Above Method uses this Method:
插入代码块:
public static float ComputeRawDamageNew(DamageTypes damageType, float magnitude, float armorEffectiveness, float absorbedDamageRatio)
{
float num = 0f;
float bluntDamageFactorByDamageType = CombatStatCalculator.GetBluntDamageFactorByDamageType(damageType);
float num2 = magnitude * bluntDamageFactorByDamageType;
float num3 = 100f / (100f + armorEffectiveness);
num += num2 * num3;
if (damageType != DamageTypes.Blunt)
{
float num4;
if (damageType != DamageTypes.Cut)
{
if (damageType != DamageTypes.Pierce)
{
return 0f;
}
num4 = Math.Max(0f, magnitude * num3 - armorEffectiveness * 0.33f);
}
else
{
num4 = Math.Max(0f, magnitude * num3 - armorEffectiveness * 0.5f);
}
num += num4 * (1f - bluntDamageFactorByDamageType);
}
return num * absorbedDamageRatio;
}
插入代码块:
private static float GetBluntDamageFactorByDamageType(DamageTypes damageType)
{
float result = 0f;
switch (damageType)
{
case DamageTypes.Cut:
result = 0.1f;
break;
case DamageTypes.Pierce:
result = 0.25f;
break;
case DamageTypes.Blunt:
result = 1f;
break;
}
return result;
}
插入代码块:
public static float CalculateStrikeMagnitudeForSwing(float swingSpeed, float impactPointAsPercent, float weaponWeight, float weaponLength, float weaponInertia, float weaponCoM, float extraLinearSpeed)
{
float num = weaponLength * impactPointAsPercent - weaponCoM;
float num2 = swingSpeed * (0.5f + weaponCoM) + extraLinearSpeed;
float num3 = 0.5f * weaponWeight * num2 * num2;
float num4 = 0.5f * weaponInertia * swingSpeed * swingSpeed;
float num5 = num3 + num4;
float num6 = (num2 + swingSpeed * num) / (1f / weaponWeight + num * num / weaponInertia);
float num7 = num2 - num6 / weaponWeight;
float num8 = swingSpeed - num6 * num / weaponInertia;
float num9 = 0.5f * weaponWeight * num7 * num7;
float num10 = 0.5f * weaponInertia * num8 * num8;
float num11 = num9 + num10;
float num12 = num5 - num11 + 0.5f;
return 0.067f * num12;
}and so on....
Yeah sure, a mod can add a "if statment" and some new calculation, but at least for vanilla, thats it. I haven´t found any method where it says that you deal also blunt dmg with an axe e.g.
I really think something is wrong in the damage calculations for swing polearms
I just tested these 2 glaives in battle against the same aserai troops
The first one with 40 swing damage and 43 swing speed on the sticker, averaged at 110 damage per hit in combat (basically one shotting most aserai units)
The second one with 22 swing damage and 24 swing speed, averaged at 200 damage per hit in combat (more than one shotting most troops)
Can someone explain that ? It seems like the length of the weapon exponentially increase the swing damage.
I just tested these 2 glaives in battle against the same aserai troops
The first one with 40 swing damage and 43 swing speed on the sticker, averaged at 110 damage per hit in combat (basically one shotting most aserai units)
The second one with 22 swing damage and 24 swing speed, averaged at 200 damage per hit in combat (more than one shotting most troops)
Can someone explain that ? It seems like the length of the weapon exponentially increase the swing damage.
Dr-Shinobi
Its because that stat is based on your one handed weapon damage i think. But yeah i think its about your length to if i understood the code rightI really think something is wrong in the damage calculations for swing polearms
I just tested these 2 glaives in battle against the same aserai troops
The first one with 40 swing damage and 43 swing speed on the sticker, averaged at 110 damage per hit in combat (basically one shotting most aserai units)
The second one with 22 swing damage and 24 swing speed, averaged at 200 damage per hit in combat (more than one shotting most troops)
Can someone explain that ? It seems like the length of the weapon exponentially increase the swing damage.
not only the length, but also the weight and the damage_factor which are in the Crafting_piece.xml . Also I have to note that if you click on Two Handed you will see your high dmg number.I really think something is wrong in the damage calculations for swing polearms
I just tested these 2 glaives in battle against the same aserai troops
The first one with 40 swing damage and 43 swing speed on the sticker, averaged at 110 damage per hit in combat (basically one shotting most aserai units)
The second one with 22 swing damage and 24 swing speed, averaged at 200 damage per hit in combat (more than one shotting most troops)
Can someone explain that ? It seems like the length of the weapon exponentially increase the swing damage.
Dr-Shinobi
Oh good tip...thats how i managed to do it xD didnt found out how but now i know
You can't swing them 1 handed....
The second weapon is lighter so it doesn't make more sense if you factor the weight in.
Furthermore those weapons are so cheap because they use the stats of "One Handed" instead of "Two Handed" for price calculations.
最后编辑:
The second weapon is indeed lighter but the damage factor is higher if you read the xml.
Its 3.8 for Glaive vs. 4.9 for the long Glaive.
In addition if you increase the weight of the second glaive to 0,9 instead of 0,5 you will have 194dmg but a slower speed. So the weight increases the dmg, but not that far.
最后编辑:
Ah nice make more sense, but now we can see how extremely OP they are compared to the other best weapons in game :
They fine steel Menavlion head for example has a weight of 0.9 and a dmg factor of 4.6 = result in ca. 50-60 speed and i think it was 181dmg. The Long Glaive has half the weight = ca.70-80 speed and a damage-factor of 4.9
Dr-Shinobi
Yeah it has crossed my mind to but could be that they have just missed the math in the equation to the stats or they are actually counting if you could one hand swing
you can swing with a one handed polarm, just make a thrust attack to the left of your enemy and than "swing" with your mouse XD the result is bad though.Yeah it has crossed my mind to but could be that they have just missed the math in the equation to the stats or they are actually counting if you could one hand swing
It should be noted, however, that the damage of glaives being that high also means it's very often an overkill, so you don't actually use all of it.
While a 2h axe being much faster could very well deal more damage per second if used correctly.
Though glaives should be nerfed regardless. But it's still gonna be my favorite weapon.
While a 2h axe being much faster could very well deal more damage per second if used correctly.
Though glaives should be nerfed regardless. But it's still gonna be my favorite weapon.
Dr-Shinobi
oh yeah now when you mention it ^^ was some time ago i used the one handed spear...manivilion long spear to add in specific to....
With that i have to disagree. You can compare the simple Glaive with the Drilled Two Handed Axe. The difference in Speed is not that big.
It should be noted, however, that the damage of glaives being that high also means it's very often an overkill, so you don't actually use all of it.
While a 2h axe being much faster could very well deal more damage per second if used correctly.
Though glaives should be nerfed regardless. But it's still gonna be my favorite weapon.
I'm more concerned with the low thrusting damage of polearms across the board for infantry (not an issue for cavalry with speed bonuses). Menavlions were primarily used by infantry as piercing weapons against cavalry, while here it's 1000x more effective to just wildly swing it around.
Dr-Shinobi
Depends since a swing takes good timing and you have no shield to...Manavlions are the strongest of the "one handers" however they are bad at range compared to the others. In that video above im using an manivlion in that castle the long version...Thrust is also perfect to stop horses and gives you perfect reach to keep things at bay combined with your agility....I get the trade that you get with two handers since youre open for archers and throwing weapons which makes you having to take cover
/Using the other manivilion here i think but i would reccomend to go for the longer versions when you go up in skills even if the stats are lower. Reach is key in many situations when youre using spears. You can use the Manivilions but then you go for more risk with slighly more damage and can miss out on cavs sometimes to and supporting behind shield walls becomes harder. Your skills evens it up anyways later on
最后编辑:
Agree, a Thrust is effective whith the collisionspeed, but it is mor difficult to hit the right spot/point. As Infantry in good Armor doesnt have so much movement speed, the thrust dmg is lower.
I compare it with baseball... never saw a guy to do a thrust
