Empire noble blade...hmmm well they do hit like trucks though but not me either or do i....Could be for the lords only to keep them powerful or something
If you wanna change the dmg of the Glaives you will have to go to the Crafting_pieces xml file and change every damage_factor of the "spear_blade_x" for cut dmg. Atm this is the easiest Solution, because every weapon will be crafted by the start of the Game(excluded your own crafted weapons). All of them use the same Damage Method but with different parameters like Weapon Length, Center of Mass etc.
If you would make a change in this Method, all Weapons will be affected. So the best you can do, is to reduce the multiplier = damage_factor.
If you wanna change the dmg of the Glaives you will have to go to the Crafting_pieces xml file and change every damage_factor of the "spear_blade_x" for cut dmg. Atm this is the easiest Solution, because every weapon will be crafted by the start of the Game(excluded your own crafted weapons). All of them use the same Damage Method but with different parameters like Weapon Length, Center of Mass etc.
If you would make a change in this Method, all Weapons will be affected. So the best you can do, is to reduce the multiplier = damage_factor.
Thnx if only you could nerf the autocalk (which shouldnt be impossible) to for cavs it would be golden for me ^^ But yeah im gonna try this later to see how it feels
Btw im still curious about that question i asked you about the last code you sent
so if i understood this right pierce deals 17% better damage against armor then cut right ? Or negate on armor value so to speak but same thing. Thnx for the codes, always fun to see how they are put together these days And yeah im not so keen on the speedbonus on thrown type...which one is that in the first code you sent btw ?
Asked you a question as well as what does armor have to do with it if they are both cut damage ? Since you think it was an valid point,. I mean you are going to get more problem with the other weapon types going up while the cut ones stay the same (towards eachother) so no solution to it but more tweaks + alot of other stuff in game that becomes unbalanced as ive mentioned many times before. But this one is about Glaive (and other similars) not about armor so
...
I think what Orion means and what you don't seem to accept is that raw damage cannot be judged by it's own. Let's say a glaive hits an unprotected person in the belly and nearly cuts him through, killing or a least disabling him immediately. That's 170 damage. An axe hits the belly and destroys a lot of tissue/entrails but does not disable the person at once, that's 60 damage. Of course that is numbers voodoo, but for the example it's ok.
If armor comes into play, damage does not have to change in a fixed relation. Maybe the 170 cut damage is reduced to a mere 20 go-through-armor blunt damage in case of the long and light glaive but the 60 axe damage is only reduced to 30 blunt damage, because it's compactness of energy appliance is recognized by a different weapon-armor formula. That would be ok from a point of reality and also from the gameplay perspective. The glaive could be better by far against unarmored people than the axe, because maybe it was, but the axes were better against armor, because probably they were.
Should a low level starter weapon be able to oneshot people? Heck yeah, of course, if it could in reality in my opinion (but I don't like RPG level damage stuff so much, so ...).
Thnx if only you could nerf the autocalk (which shouldnt be impossible) to for cavs it would be golden for me ^^ But yeah im gonna try this later to see how it feels
The First Code is the is the ThrustMagnitude calc method for every melee weapon who can thrust. There are variables which more or less defines what a damage output you can have. But if you have a look, you will make only more dmg when you have more speed.
The weaponweight is flat and only gets a 2.5 addition.
The multipliers here are speed related
=>Thrust Speed of the Weapon,
=>extraLinearSpeed=>Your movement Speed, the movement speed of your opponent(depends if you collide at each other=higher number, or the opponet flee and you run behind him=>lower number).
If armor comes into play, damage does not have to change in a fixed relation. Maybe the 170 cut damage is reduced to a mere 20 go-through-armor blunt damage in case of the long and light glaive but the 60 axe damage is only reduced to 30 blunt damage, because it's compactness of energy
But axes dont do blunt or do they ?. I understood what he ment but its not the thing i asked him about since were discussing two handers compared to eachother which all do cut damage
The First Code is the is the ThrustMagnitude calc method for every melee weapon who can thrust. There are variables which more or less defines what a damage output you can have. But if you have a look, you will make only more dmg when you have more speed.
The weaponweight is flat and only gets a 2.5 addition.
The multipliers here are speed related
=>Thrust Speed of the Weapon,
=>extraLinearSpeed=>Your movement Speed, the movement speed of your opponent(depends if you collide at each other=higher number, or the opponet flee and you run behind him=>lower number).
Also interesting but off topic. Every Weapon, which you can swing, has its personal "SweetSpot". Think it means the Zone where you have the most dmg output.
插入代码块:
private float CalculateSweetSpot()
{
float num = -1f;
float result = -1f;
for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++)
{
float num2 = 0.01f * (float)i;
float num3 = CombatStatCalculator.CalculateStrikeMagnitudeForSwing(this._currentWeaponSwingSpeed, num2, this._currentWeaponWeight, this._currentWeaponReach, this._currentWeaponInertia, this._currentWeaponCenterOfMass, 0f);
if (num < num3)
{
num = num3;
result = num2;
}
}
return result;
}
Also interesting but off topic. Every Weapon, which you can swing, has its personal "SweetSpot". Think it means the Zone where you have the most dmg output.
插入代码块:
private float CalculateSweetSpot()
{
float num = -1f;
float result = -1f;
for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++)
{
float num2 = 0.01f * (float)i;
float num3 = CombatStatCalculator.CalculateStrikeMagnitudeForSwing(this._currentWeaponSwingSpeed, num2, this._currentWeaponWeight, this._currentWeaponReach, this._currentWeaponInertia, this._currentWeaponCenterOfMass, 0f);
if (num < num3)
{
num = num3;
result = num2;
}
}
return result;
}
The title of this thread is: "Glaive weaponry is OP atm change my mind"
If you want a thread that says "Change my mind", you are going to get counterarguments. A point should stand on its own merits - if glaives truly are OP, you should be able to have good counteraguments.
No, I don't think it's OP, especially when used in mounted combat. There is a reason why people who primarily used Glaive/Halberd weapons are famous in history... particularly the Chinese (like Guan Yu, Lu Bu) and even Mongols used Glaives (most likely looted from the Chinese of course). It is a very good weapon on horseback and should be as powerful as it is.
I feel that other weapons on foot should be equally as powerful though, the Great Axe, maces and 2 handed swords... You certainly shouldn't be able to survive being smashed on the head with a 2 handed mace, axe or even a 2h sword... not unless your wearing a thick steel helmet and have a rock as a head.
Technically there is a damage buff with the higher velocity that comes from charging on horse in melee combat with an axe too. It is possible to kill many enemies at once with an axe on horse, although they are not as good because of their shorter reach. Axes in turn tend to work better at close quarters in sieges.
We don't have a 2 handed mace (without mods anyways) yet so any judgements will have to be based on extrapolations or mods.
Armor is involved because it's an intrinsic part of the damage calculation. If armor calculation is given more depth (e.g. nonlinear damage mitigation vs. different damage types) then one could significantly reduce extremes (glaives), and slightly reduce highs (e.g. voulges) while maintaining suitable lows (1h swords) and mids (2h swords). It's as much a part of the discussion as speed bonus. All damage types are modified by speed bonus, so if we change it then everything changes proportionally, right? Wrong. Some weapons straight-up get consistently higher average speed bonuses because they are easiee to use, inherently swing faster, or are commonly used on horseback. A possible solution is a cap on speed bonus, which will reduce those extreme high averages while leaving the lower averages mostly untouched.
It gets even more complex when you take into account mounted vs foot damage. A lot of the damage is because the horse is adding to the weapon's velocity.
In my opinion, the glaive is very dangerous on horse in field battles, but less effective on foot due to the distancing requirements, and inferior to higher tier weapons (think tier 6 2-handed swords / axes) in siege weapons. In turn those weapons are less effective on horse back.
Also in my opinion, cut damage is just too powerful across the board against armor. That would resolve the problem, at least for mid to higher tier units. The weapon would be even less effective at sieges (against enemy higher tier weapons) and a bit less effective in open field battles. It would make the weapon more situational than it is right now.
If I ignore the fact that I cannot open and edit .dll files, where do you find this file? It's not in M+B II - bin - Win64_Shipping_Client folder with the rest of those .dll and also not in the Modules' bin folders. Or is it?
But axes dont do blunt or do they ?. I understood what he ment but its not the thing i asked him about since were discussing two handers compared to eachother which all do cut damage
As far as I understand any weapon does or can do a part of through-the-armor blunt damage, there are formulas for it in the game. But I'm a terrible modder, so maybe I got it wrong.
If I ignore the fact that I cannot open and edit .dll files, where do you find this file? It's not in M+B II - bin - Win64_Shipping_Client folder with the rest of those .dll and also not in the Modules' bin folders. Or is it?
The title of this thread is: "Glaive weaponry is OP atm change my mind"
If you want a thread that says "Change my mind", you are going to get counterarguments. A point should stand on its own merits - if glaives truly are OP, you should be able to have good counteraguments.
Which i did and it wasnt even about my mind LOL since you didnt answer how two cut damage weapons compared to each other would change with the armor buff......... Which was the reason of this very thread that Glaive was OP compared to the others or all weapons in general to be frank. I mean you already got a lot of answers up there and you still want to argue with questions ? Sounds like bait to me. If you came with something solid about the Two handers against each other then we talk..But you already know what i feel about the reach part as ive shared you some valid experience even inside an castle..... even if youre right as ive shared that opinion to in some aspect others not since its still effective in castles if you know how to use it right as well as its an multi purpose weapon both on anti cavs and inf as you got more reach and is safer. Shorter weapons sure are better in tight situations but also more riskier since you need to get closer and they still do basic aprox 35-45 towards the 180-216 of the damage as an basic glaive does.
If you cant understand this well then we have to agree to disagree
1. Armor doesn't do jack atm, especially against blade weapons, where it should be the most effective (armor is made to prevent being cut into pieces by those mean weapons)
2. Glaives are too OP, especially in comparison to other blade weapons.
Hence, fixing Glaives OPness won't change the fact armor is useless, and fixing armor won't change the fact glaives are OP in relation to other blade weapons (that's where Shinobi is right)
1. Armor doesn't do jack atm, especially against blade weapons, where it should be the most effective (armor is made to prevent being cut into pieces by those mean weapons)
Well cant agree on this...I take heck (well not that heck ) more damage with heavy armor then if im not wearing one...In other words they do negate and i feel more safer with them then without.... even with medium armor set and this is on highest difficulty. Buffing em right now for me would be to make it easier though...I wouldnt mind it if it got buffed on medium settings but after last buff i felt it went a bit to the bad side of things even if i learned to accept it and can live with it for now.....
But good you understood that point even if i understand theirs which has nothing to do with the Glaive compared to the others per say
Which i did and it wasnt even about my mind LOL since you didnt answer how two cut damage weapons compared to each other would change with the armor buff.........
If you cant understand this well then we have to agree to disagree
What is all this nonsense. So youre saying just because sometimes you have trouble inside an fort with an Glaive it justifies the insane damage ? Why arent the one handed spear the same then ?
I got a lot of kills insides castles easy with an Glaive as i did outside. Sure it can be trickier and demands more thinking at times but does that justify the damage along with the length in whole ? And you still can get a lot of damage out even if you dont hit with the blade.
Youre just talking strategy thinking here not the actual subject and still trying to push your armor agenda to xD
I respect that you are new to this game and we leave it like that. Next time actually try something out before you read out theories as facts
However its good as you do to think about the whole picture...This i had to do when i was advocated and evaluated the one handed spear an valuable weapon
1. Armor doesn't do jack atm, especially against blade weapons, where it should be the most effective (armor is made to prevent being cut into pieces by those mean weapons)
2. Glaives are too OP, especially in comparison to other blade weapons.
Hence, fixing Glaives OPness won't change the fact armor is useless, and fixing armor won't change the fact glaives are OP in relation to other blade weapons (that's where Shinobi is right)
As far as blade weapons go, my thoughts are to first buff armor and see how we stand. If armor is buffed, it makes the glaive potent at low tier units, but less effective at killing higher tier units (or lords) and even less effective in sieges against higher tier units.
.
