Getting Owned By Khergit Khanate, Need Help!

[Phantom Lamb]

My army consists of Huscarls, Sarranid Master Archers, and Swadian Nights.  However, on every siege, I find it impossible to either attack or defend a castle/town, it just leads to absolute slaughter, especially the Lancers, those guys mess me up.  Any tips on how to counter them? 

 

[XxForesightxX]

how big is your army? how much do you have of each troop?

 

[Alfredthegreat]

khergits are the worst at sieges. they have the worst infantry. their troops are just cavalry.their lancer are decent. they are good at delievering damage, but worst at taking damage.

 

[XxForesightxX]

thats why im asking how big hsi army is and how many of the troops, thirty huscarls should have no issue taking a khergit castle, especially being backed by sarranid or rhodok ranged troops

 

[Phantom Lamb]

The match I have is 150 against 500.  (May be the reason why lol) which is 80 huscarls and 70 master archers.  I've had it before though where I am sieging a Khergit castle they have 100 and I have 100 70 huscarls and 30 archers and get owned.  I mean, I can win, but my losses are heavy.

Thanks

 

[JosieJ]

Do you have a medic in your party?  You should have someone in your party with Surgery, Wound Treatment and First Aid.  You can raise those skills yourself if you're concentrating on raising your Intelligence, or you can recruit a companion to raise them.  The higher those skills, the faster you and your troops will heal, and the smaller your losses will be.

How are you assaulting a castle?  If you're just heading for the ladders straight off, of course you're going to get pwned.  Stand your huscarls at the bottom of the ladder, stand your archers a couple paces behind them so they'll be protected by their shields (tell both groups to bunch up so they'll stand closer together), then let your archers shoot everybody off the walls.  When they run out of arrows, retreat and do it again.  Once you've thinned out the defenders enough, send your huscarls up the ladder to melee any defenders that are left. 

If you're defending a castle, you want maybe 20 huscarls or other strong infantry to hold the ladder, then a metric ton of ranged troops to pincushion everyone as they attempt to make it to the ladder.  I'd put in about 50 top-tier ranged troops, then fill out the garrison with Swadian Militia (who usually spawn with crossbows even though they're infantry), Rhodok crossbowmen, or other tier-2 ranged troops, depending on what's available where you are.  Any attackers that actually make it up the ladder will be halted by the huscarls and shot up by the ranged units while they're stalled on the ladder.  Aim for a garrison of about 200 units in a castle, 350 or over for a town.  Another advantage to using mostly lowly tier-2 units in your garrisons is that they're dirt cheap, so you won't have to spend a ton of money.

 

[Phantom Lamb]

No, I'm not just running for the walls, I usually will have my archers thin them out first, but the problem is that they have archers too and a ton of them, so pretty much I get to stand there and get shot.  As for defending the town, it's Dherim (spelling), I try to group my infantry at the siege tower, but they have soooo many archers, that my archers don't even have time to get into position before they get lit up, and the infantry just destroys my Huscarls, don't understand why.  Haven't tried defending in a few days, may try again tomorrow night.

Thanks

 

[JosieJ]

No, I'm not just running for the walls, I usually will have my archers thin them out first, but the problem is that they have archers too and a ton of them, so pretty much I get to stand there and get shot.

Putting your archers behind your infantry so that they're protected by their shields will at least cut down on the amount you lose to enemy archers.

As for defending the town, it's Dherim (spelling), I try to group my infantry at the siege tower, but they have soooo many archers, that my archers don't even have time to get into position before they get lit up, and the infantry just destroys my Huscarls, don't understand why.  Haven't tried defending in a few days, may try again tomorrow night.

Ugh, Dhirim.  As you've seen, the gap is wide there and it's a pain in the ass to defend.  You're in prime position for recruiting Swadian Militia, though.  If you get a breathing space, go out and recruit as many Swadian recruits as possible and stuff your garrison with them.  Take them out in your party and train them as you get the opportunity--it's only 1 tier, so if you've got enough Training in your party, it shouldn't take but a day.  Even leaving them as recruits will help bulk up the numbers in your garrison, although I'd aim for an overwhelming number in the case of Dhirim--500 or so.  I know that's really tough to do when you're constantly under attack, though.

 

[XxForesightxX]

I'm actually surprised the Khergits are putting up that much of a fight. It really doesnt matter if its 300 against 500 or 150 vs 500, if you have that sustainability like Josie is talking about, after some initial arrow fire, your huscarls should have less of an issue storming the walls. I've had sieges that I had only well trained infantry (only a handful of huscarls) with some archers, but my party had high sustain so i was able to take the siege, plus if youre cracking some khergits right on their dome with a sledgehammer, they tend to fall down

 

[michaelvillena]

It's too bad you cannot sally forth to engage them during the siege just like the AI does when it's defending.  It would be great if you could take out a bunch of their archers before the actual siege itself.  If nothing else, I would suggest riding out before the siege starts and clobbering each individual army while it is still on the march and before they can muster around your castle and then retreat back to your castle to get fresh troops.  Then ride forth and perform another "spoiling" attack.  Historically speaking, a smaller but highly aggressive army can often times win against superior numbers. 
A tactic that I do whenever I am defending a castle under siege against overwhelming forces is to jump down from the walls and go after their archers.  It sounds like suicide but with a high level character with massive armor you can run around and whack them from behind after which they will whirl about to face you which will then expose their backs to your archers who are perched on your walls.  After that, it's a matter of surviving long enough for the round to end.  For the next round you can stay behind the walls if you are badly injured but at least you've cut the opposing army down to size.

 

[XxForesightxX]

It's too bad you cannot sally forth to engage them during the siege just like the AI does when it's defending.  It would be great if you could take out a bunch of their archers before the actual siege itself.  If nothing else, I would suggest riding out before the siege starts and clobbering each individual army while it is still on the march and before they can muster around your castle and then retreat back to your castle to get fresh troops.  Then ride forth and perform another "spoiling" attack.  Historically speaking, a smaller but highly aggressive army can often times win against superior numbers. 
A tactic that I do whenever I am defending a castle under siege against overwhelming forces is to jump down from the walls and go after their archers.  It sounds like suicide but with a high level character with massive armor you can run around and whack them from behind after which they will whirl about to face you which will then expose their backs to your archers who are perched on your walls.  After that, it's a matter of surviving long enough for the round to end.  For the next round you can stay behind the walls if you are badly injured but at least you've cut the opposing army down to size.

lmao! last time i did that i met 30 rhodoks bolts to my face XD

 

[michaelvillena]

It's too bad you cannot sally forth to engage them during the siege just like the AI does when it's defending.  It would be great if you could take out a bunch of their archers before the actual siege itself.  If nothing else, I would suggest riding out before the siege starts and clobbering each individual army while it is still on the march and before they can muster around your castle and then retreat back to your castle to get fresh troops.  Then ride forth and perform another "spoiling" attack.  Historically speaking, a smaller but highly aggressive army can often times win against superior numbers. 
A tactic that I do whenever I am defending a castle under siege against overwhelming forces is to jump down from the walls and go after their archers.  It sounds like suicide but with a high level character with massive armor you can run around and whack them from behind after which they will whirl about to face you which will then expose their backs to your archers who are perched on your walls.  After that, it's a matter of surviving long enough for the round to end.  For the next round you can stay behind the walls if you are badly injured but at least you've cut the opposing army down to size.

lmao! last time i did that i met 30 rhodoks bolts to my face XD

Yeah, I hear you...that's why I never go against the rhodoks.  Between their sharpshooters and their sergeants, they are murder.  But seriously, I make sure that I am adequately equipped before I do my Kamikaze dive into the attacking force.  I've got Lordly Plate Mail, Boots, Gauntlets, Great Helmet, Reinforced Huscarl shields, Masterwork Shortened Military Scyth (50 damage) and an Elite Balanced Scimitar.  I run up to the archers as fast as I can, and start slashing with my Scimitar which is an incredibly quick weapon and cut as many down as I can before I turn and run.  If any follow me, I back away with my shield up until I can get ten or so of them to follow me.  I quickly switch to my superb Masterwork Scyth and cut those ten down within a few seconds.  Then I switch to my shield/scimitar combo and repeat.  To minimize getting hit by arrows, I always run and weave left to right.  Sometimes, I don't raise my shield so that I can run faster.  BTW, that Reinforced Huscarl Shield has over 400 hit points with a resistance of over 20. I've often stood with my troops after a hard battle with 30 or so arrows sticking on it. With my Lordly Plate Mail, most crappy arrows simply bounce off without damage.  Also remember that the enemy AI is doing one of two things: a) the dorks are facing your castle walls and defenders so their backs are unprotected.  Run up and slash to your heart's content. b) they turn around to face you which leaves their backs exposed to your own archers who can easily pick them off while you run around drawing their fire.  Sometimes you just have to go "BANZAI!!!!"

 

[michaelvillena]

There was one particularly tough defensive battle wherein the besieging force managed to kill all of my castle defenders and all of my castle's battlements and towers had fallen.  Well, guess what...it ain't over yet because I was still alive even though I was outside.  While 30 or more enemy troops were wandering around inside my castle looking for my troops, another 50 spawned in the final wave outside.  Most started heading towards the walls (A.I. is still trying to besiege the castle).  So I would run up, kill a few and retreat back to the woods.  Then I'd pick off the handful that would come after me.  I'd hide behind trees whenever their archers opened up on me and I would move to another location.  I always use the battlefield overview map (backspace) to know where they are and I would lead small groups into an ambush and kill them myself.  It was an epic battle and took almost an hour of running around.  My shield was gone and I was down to just a handful of health points left but I WON!
I've also done an "Alamo" type stand wherein I fought alongside my troops until they were almost overwhelmed.  Then I ran to my predetermined spot (usually a doorway of one of the towers), whipped out my two hander and killed on-rushing attackers.  I chose the doorway because this limits them to a frontal attack otherwise they will swarm me.  I back away from the door just slightly so that I have enough back swing to slash sideways.  My character is immensely strong and quick even with the two hander and can easily kill a heavily armored knight with a single clean slash.

 

[Knight of calradia]

The khergits really are quite annoying especially when their vassal just recover all the time, siege your castles and run away :p.

 

[michaelvillena]

I had just joined the Swadian faction and King Harleus had awarded the village of Rduna as my first fief.  Problem is, the castle (forgot the name of it) tied to it was under siege by the Khergits and in danger of falling.  If it falls, I automatically lose my fief!  I didn't have companions or troops but I had to try and help the defenders which numbered around 50.  During the first wave, I couldn't stand by the ladder opening because I spawned to the side and the defenders were all jammed and wouldn't let me past.  I figured they were all hosed as the Khergit archers were picking them off one by one before the enemy even started climbing up the ladders.  So I waited at the edge of the defending cluster and I managed to kill a few that got that far.  After which I ran to my "Alamo" spot inside one of the towers right by the doorway and waited.  I chose this spot because the enemy is forced to attack me two at a time and I cannot be surrounded and mobbed.  Additionally, since I was inside the tower their archers don't have a clean shot at me.  Let the carnage begin:

First wave disposed of:

I stayed in my Alamo spot for the third wave.  I had personally killed at least 150 enemy troops by then but I was low on health points so I ran down the ladder and tried to engage the final wave in the woods surrounding the castle using my hit and run tactics.  Towards the end, the few remaining enemy soldiers just stayed on the battlements so I had to come after them but this time they had no arrows or archers left:

That was an epic battle and I got to keep my fief and earned a boatload of renown. 

 

[sir bekkon]

True the Khergits are the weakest in melee, but don't forget their differences to some factions that can work to their advantage in siege battles.
1. higher proportion of archers
2. longer melee weapons that can focus down the first attackers up the ladders
3. lots of javelin throwers
In response (similar to other sieges):
A. bring units that have large shields (ro & sw sergeants in the 1st wave)
B. when appropriate, fully commit to a melee assault (a more viable option than with other factions)
C. keep archers out of range of javelins!