GEOGRAPHICAL COVERAGE: marching formations, ambush, interception of armies,resting

with the ideas and mechanics expressed in this thread:

  • I fully agree, also in relation to the other threads,Developers should consider these suggestions

    Votes: 7 63.6%
  • I completely agree with this thread(i want it in native game)

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • generally I agree, the system should be tested and balanced.A special mod should be made for this.

    Votes: 6 54.5%
  • some changes should be made (argue in the comments section)

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • I don't like it at all and in the comments section I will argue why

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • Total voters
    11

Users who are viewing this thread

SERVICE INFORMATION:
This thread is part of a group of threads related to: -logistics and supply lines
- economy based on a system of needs
- maintenance of armies equipment and personal equipment through skill smithing (which would otherwise be almost wasted) and a formula for the durability of the equipment
- balancing of prices by distributing this price over time through the equipment maintenance system.
At the end of this thread I will insert the thread that contains those of this group and I will also add this to them.
In that thread there is a survey, it would be welcome if you participated.

INTRODUCTION:
Armies should have a geographical coverage, that is an area that allows them to "occupy" a certain surface of the campaign map, to block its passage.

SIMPLE VERSION but not very immersive:
Without complicating matters, the shape of the area could be a circle of radius R, with R depending on the size of the army.

IN-DEPTH VERSION and very immersive:
Complicating things a little, the form of the march formation could be chosen among different forms and each would have effects on the campaign map.
Suppose that these forms, which occupy a given area, have hitboxes and that the formations move continuously in the countryside map and with a greater number of time speeds (so as to have greater precision during small movements)
The area occupied by the march formation (or allocation) is the GEOGRAPHICAL COVERAGE from which the thread takes its name.
This area marks the boundary where two armies come into contact, so do not confuse it with the vision of the party which is more extensive.
Below I will propose:
- mechanics: energy consumption and rest
- formations of march formations and allocation formations
- interception of armies during the march
- change the formation from one to another
- ambush formation-> ambush
- interception during the formation change


REST MECHANIC:
This is not an allocation formation, but a mechanic that is used during a camp.
The march is tiring and every march formation and army composition has different degrees of exhaustion.
So if an army gets tired, it slows down and morale decreases.
Rest improves morale allows you to recover your energy,and it speeds up the healing of the wounded .
-You can rest in any formation (be it marching or allocation) and in both cases there are penalties and benefits.
-Rest does not activate instantly and does not deactivate instantly, activation and deactivation take a few seconds.
-There is therefore an energy bar whose maximum value should depend on what was eaten the day before (both in terms of quantity, quality and variety).
-This bar empties passively but slowly (because staying awake you also get tired)
-The various marching formations consume the bar at different speeds and rest regenerates it.
-consumption due to marching formation occurs only in movement.
-The speed of energy recovery while resting in cities / villages / castles is higher than in outdoor rest.
For simplicity, in the various formations I will describe the energy consumption in increasing terms from 1 to 10, arbitrary but fairly consistent values and that are an example.
Consumption can be understood as a unit of energy consumed, while moving, in the unit of time.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: I would tie the party's food consumption at the end of the day to the energy consumption at the end of the same day and would introduce the possibility of rationing the food at the cost of less energy or morale recovery.

MARCH FORMATION,ALLOCATION FORMATION, AND THEIR SHAPE(or geografical coverage)

NORMAL MARCH FORMATION
:
- covers an SQUARE-shaped area whose DIAGONAL D depends on the size of the army.
- it is less rapid than column formation but also exposes to a lower number of risks.
- there is no bonus or malus for the front and side hitboxes
- the hitbox on the back of the formation, if attacked by enemy, reduces our morale in battle and makes the enemy appear at an average distance behind us.
- the inversion of formation is as slow as that of column formation.
-What opened in the warband was the camp (whose formation of appropriation is described below) where you could "go around the camp" and watch the soldiers and in addition to all that normally can be done here you can impart to various groups of soldiers order to go to a given position and maintain it, with the desired orientation and fire option.
Once he exits this screen, he can save that soldiers' disposition as an army formation with a given name.
When you start a battle and are in normal formation, the army will take on that formation.
-energy consumption: 6


COLUMN FORMATION:
- elongated shape parallel to the direction of travel, it covers a long but narrow area. A snake whose length depends with a given proportion on infantry (light and heavy) and twice that factor on cavalry.
- the speed of the map is equal to the normal speed multiplied by a given factor, greater than 1, whose components vary similarly to the logic of how the length varies according to infantry and cavalry.
- the various groups of the party can be ordered in the column.
- moves by describing curves (like a snake) with a limited curvature (means that the curves cannot be too tight) but always according to the composition of the army (more cavalry, more curvature) .In this way armies can be intercepted , but those with more cavalry will have a better ability to "tack even if the formation is longer".
-the inversion of the formation's direction takes 2-3 seconds (which in the campaign map will correspond to a few tens of minutes) (the number is an example)
- if the sides of the formation are reached by an enemy then fleeing is more difficult and involves greater sacrifices.
- if instead you fight (because you can't escape or you choose to fight) morale is reduced and you find yourself with a column formation, with the order of the groups as we established it in the campaign map, distanced enough from each other to ensure both immersion and gameplay balance, i.e. a certain difficulty in controlling the groups. The enemy will be on the side of our battle formation, on the side where it should be , at a distance that could be considered a threat.
-if the rear is reached by the enemy, escaping is simpler than normal and the cost in terms of men is reduced.
-if you fight morale is reduced and the enemy starts behind us at a distance that is considered a threat(and our formation is the column formation).
-if instead it is the front side of the formation that comes into contact with the enemy, the classic battle begins, without bonus nor malus.
-energy consumption: 10

NOTE: the first two factors, length and speed of the party depending on the presence of the cavalry is due to the fact that a horse occupies a larger space than a man and with regard to speed it is due to the fact that during a forced march the horse can carry any soldiers tired to allow him to rest, therefore trying to go quickly.
If we followed the logic of: the army moves at the speed of the slowest unit, we would complicate things greatly.

LARGE FORMATION.
- marching formation in which a wide and thinner area is covered in the countryside map (a rectangle with the long side that acts as a front of the marching formation).
- can be used to block a very large passage (for example a valley between two mountain ranges).
- the movement speed is reduced compared to the speed of the normal gear formation (therefore allows movement)
- ne bonus ne malus in terms of morale for the front and side hitboxes.
- the hitbox on the back assigns a penalty to morale and makes the enemy appear very close to us in battle.
- the inversion of the direction of the formation is among the fastest
-energy consumption: 3

CIRCULAR SCOUTING FORMATION.
- circular shape with radius R, with R as a function of the number of units. The geographical coverage is greater than the NORMAL FORMATION but less than the LARGE FORMATION.
-triples(or every factor that coherently help us to balance the game) the scouting range and increases morale in battle(circular->there is 1 contact hitbox and have this effect). The scouting range is the area where enemies are seen, not the contact hitbox(or geografical coverage). It means that you can see the enemy arrive much earlier from big distances, not that you get in touch.
- It is slower than the wide formation in the movement
- The time required to pass from this formation to another is the smallest
- the inversion of the formation direction is the fastest
energy consumption: 4

CAMPING (allocation formation)
- allocation formation of circular shape with radius R, with R as a function of the number of units. The covered area is greater than the normal formation but less than the LARGE formation.
-triples(or every factor that coherently help us to balance the game) the scouting range and increases morale. scouting range is the area where enemies are seen, not the contact hitbox(same words as circular formation)
- CANNOT MOVE
- circular->1 contact hitbox
-The time required to pass from this formation to another is the longest
-also allows you to add a small fortification with wooden walls and any defensive systems
-it may be subject to infiltration with the purpose of sabotaging or killing a specific target.
-If you are defeated in the camp you will lose much more equipment and money than usual.
energy consumption: recover energy (such as rest)

AMBUSH FORMATION (allocation formation):
- marching shape in the form of two colums with a thickness T, spaced by a distance D .The D distance leave a column of empty space on which the enemy can pass.
- the D distance can depend on how roguery and tactics skill you have.
- T depend on the number of unit.
- Such formation, before being activated, can be oriented as desired and once positioned this gives the benefit of being less discoverable the greater one's ability to hide (roguery) and the lesser the ability of the enemy to discover ( scouting).
Furthermore, the probability of the ambush formation not being discovered is directly proportional to the time variation compared to when the formation was prepared or from the last modification made to it (rotation of the formation).
-Once positioned, the formation is active but if you want to rotate it without deactivating it, then this rotation leads to a reduction in your ability to hide and an inability to perform the ambush until the formation stops rotating.

-If the enemy passes in the middle of the column and therefore between the two segments, you can press a button to join the segments and start the ambush.
-If instead the enemy hits the 2 cloves, not passing in the middle of the column (therefore in an orthogonal direction to that of the space column), then there will be a classic battle.


-The ambush, in battle, reduces the morale of the enemy, and more in proportion to the probability of such formation not to be discovered.
-The skill roguery allows to improve this probability
-The enemy's skill scouting has a chance of discovering the enemy formation which depends on how long a territory is observed and increases as less time has passed since the last modification of the ambush formation.

-The ambush allows you to start a battle in which the enemy formation is already surrounded.
-Allows you to choose the units that take part in the ambush and their arrangement on the map
-the map being fought is for the benefit of the person who carries out the ambush, in geographical terms, but consistent with the location of the campaign map where the ambush takes place.

the ambush provides these battle conditions:
-the attacking army has reduced morale and its geographical position is at a disadvantage compared to the enemy, instead the formation with which one finds oneself depends on the formation of march with which one marched.
Any malus due to formations involving such malus in the event of interceptions accumulate.

-A retreat by the person who carries out the ambush does not penalize the fugitive, moreover at the end of the retreat (and therefore again on the campaign map) the enemy army is slowed down for a few seconds in proportion to the damage suffered during the ambush (so such as to be able to carry out a skirmish and escape strategy to weaken an army)

- the change of gear formation from the ambush formation to the other marching formations takes a long enough time, so that those who discover the formation can intercept it.
(this should be tested to see what time is balanced for gameplay)
energy consumption: 2


CHANGE MARCH O ALLOCATION FORMATION TO ANOTHER: it takes time and this depends on what type of formation to which other type you pass (on average from 2 to 5 seconds).
Generally, for gameplay purposes, the time should be long enough to allow an average fast enemy army to intercept us during the lineup if it is close enough to us (it takes tests)

INTERCEPTION DURING THE FORMATION CHANGE:
Being intercepted while changing gear training leads to an increase in morale penalties for the changing gear.
This penalty increases the further the formation is away from being changed.
This symbolizes the disorganization created during the sudden change of training and the failure to take on training designed to face the situation in which we found ourselves.
Being intercepted while changing the formation leads to an increase in morale penalties for the changing formation.
This penalty increases the further the formation is away from being changed.
This symbolizes the disorganization created during the sudden change of formation and the failure to take on formation designed to face the situation in which we found ourselves.
Interception can be seen as a dynamic form of ambush, in which an unprepared enemy is taken by surprise and attacked before they can respond in tactical terms.
For example, an army traveling in column formation near a forest (limited visibility) might be attacked to the forest side by a party coming out of the woods before it can perform a formation change.

DRAW THE WAY: point a point on the map, hold down the left button and move the mouse to draw the curve that describes the path that our party will have to travel.
The maximum curvature that the party can have will act as a barrier in order to draw the trajectory.
During the creation of the trajectory time stops and does not start again once the drawing is finished, so that we can decide whether to redraw the curve or to scroll time again.

EYE OF THE GEOGRAPHER: This mechanic allows you to see that part of the campaign map within the party view with a set of colors that identify the areas in which the party speed is reduced or increased (in red the areas in which the speed it varies negatively and in blue the one in which it varies positively).
This ability depends on the highest skill scouting among party members.
The greater the skill scouting, the greater the area whose geographical conformation and viability is recognized and the more defined and precise these areas will be.
Often it happens that you are in a part of the map before obstacles or difficult terrains (such as woods and forests, or hills or mountains) and suddenly our party slows down.
With this ability we would be able to see a little in advance if the stretch that we will travel a few moments later is easily practicable (faster or faster) or if it is not easily viable (slowdown of the party)

ADDITIONAL SUGGESTIONS:
a system of roads would help but it would be more appropriate to talk about level design and specifically the design of the map, which obviously also contains that of the roads.
Being more precise in the topology of the map would allow us to outline hills, plains, mountains, swamps and much more and would allow a truly great and immersive strategic approach.
Maybe to equip the character with some perk that allows him, at the cost of spending time, money , resources and energy, to modify locally and temporarily the topology to be able to cross it would be excellent.
A historical example is Hannibal who used vinegar to dissolve the rocks of the Italian Alps to enter Roman territory.
That is nothing more than a modification of the topology.

CONLUSION:
If you have other types of formations, with effects on the campaign map and linked to the control of the territory and at most on the initial positions in a possible battle, feel free to suggest, but keep the balances in mind.
I hope you like the system and that you like the various threads that I have written.
Below is the link relating to the thread that contains the others who talk about the topics described in the service information.
Participate in the survey and also in the one in the link that I proposed, thanks for your attention.
ECONOMY , LOGISTICS and WARFARE SUGGESTION LIST <--link
 
Last edited:

Rangider

Recruit
+1 This is something that I have wanted from the beginning. We see this in Total War and it just adds another layer to battles
 
A problem solved by this idea is that related to the movement of parties and armies when they are close to an enemy. They begin to approach and move away as if they were mosquitoes, movements and maneuvers that in theory they could not do without undergoing a change of formation that would put them in danger. The solutions proposed in the thread mean that these maneuvers cannot be carried out or if they were possible then there would be conditions to be able to perform them.
 

DJenxu1

Veteran
The implementation of these recommendations will make BL more realistic about war games. At the same time, it enhances the game's complexity, strategy, and gameplay. I don't have the luxury that TW will adopt all of these suggestions, but hopefully they will do a rough simulation. As for further development, there may be mods or DLC in the future that will implement this.
 
These are really good suggestions.
thank you, but as you can see they don't have much visibility and apart from writing them (which takes up a lot of time and effort since I have to think of solutions that balance everything) I don't have time to advertise them and therefore if it's not the user itself give it visibility are likely to remain in the shadows.
I will shortly finish my last 2 threads, one based on the armor system, to suggest changes that would make the game much more balanced both in terms of faction versus faction and in terms of "unit type versus unit type" and that he does not just talk about simple changes of parameters and numbers, which in my opinion does not serve to balance the game but to move the problem from one point to another.
The other thread is based on sieges and takes into account the shape of the cities, their occupied space, their walls, their siege, the gates of the walls and the phases of the siege.
After these two threads I will try to point out all the threads proposed by me to both users and moderators, threads that in principle are linked together in order to offer a balance and improvement on every aspect of the game, but which can also be considered individually.
As you can see below my profile, there are other threads I have written, some with open voting, your contribution would be appreciated :smile:
 

FromNight

Veteran
thank you, but as you can see they don't have much visibility and apart from writing them (which takes up a lot of time and effort since I have to think of solutions that balance everything) I don't have time to advertise them and therefore if it's not the user itself give it visibility are likely to remain in the shadows.
I will shortly finish my last 2 threads, one based on the armor system, to suggest changes that would make the game much more balanced both in terms of faction versus faction and in terms of "unit type versus unit type" and that he does not just talk about simple changes of parameters and numbers, which in my opinion does not serve to balance the game but to move the problem from one point to another.
The other thread is based on sieges and takes into account the shape of the cities, their occupied space, their walls, their siege, the gates of the walls and the phases of the siege.
After these two threads I will try to point out all the threads proposed by me to both users and moderators, threads that in principle are linked together in order to offer a balance and improvement on every aspect of the game, but which can also be considered individually.
As you can see below my profile, there are other threads I have written, some with open voting, your contribution would be appreciated :smile:
I congratulate your efforts.But now the developers I see me are disrupting their previous improvements with each new feature they add.That's why they aren't willing to add something new.all the balances of the game are based on gold and everything that breaks it is breaking the game.
 

Vattghern

Squire
These are of course all good ideas, but the developers have not yet implemented everything that they promised in their diaries. So I doubt that the final version will have these features.
 
I congratulate your efforts.But now the developers I see me are disrupting their previous improvements with each new feature they add.That's why they aren't willing to add something new.all the balances of the game are based on gold and everything that breaks it is breaking the game.
I have already written a thread concerning the economy, price balancing and a system of "tolerance" of the population as a function of economic well-being. Economic system based on a system of needs.
In addition, to regulate the prices of equipment I have already written a further thread regarding both this problem and the fact that the smithing skill seems not to be exploited as it should from the point of view of the management of the equipment of your character, companions or party , thus giving suggestions on how it should be exploited to make it "non-redundant" (in a test I made a character that increased the smithing skill and the only reason why I thought it useful was to make better and better two-handed swords to use them with the my character and to resell them at 8k each .... and it was the only sure source of income that made me feel comfortable, since the castle and 2 villages did not give enough money since to defend it I needed a garrison of at least 150/200 men ..)

here are the two threads:
ECONOMIC,PRODUCTION,SOCIAL STABILITY THREAD
DURABILITY, DEGRADATION AND MAINTENACE SYSTEM,SMITHING SKILL AND PRICE BALANCE THREAD

These are of course all good ideas, but the developers have not yet implemented everything that they promised in their diaries. So I doubt that the final version will have these features.
Thank you both for the support.
I know that the developers have not yet entered everything they want to insert, and I don't want to rush them, I simply write these suggestions to make them visible to the community and in case they are appreciated, simply, over time and with the requests of the community, sooner or later , if the developers deem them implementable or valid, they will insert them.
At most, some modders will make a mod on it.
Let's say I look at the long term and hope that in the future they can be an inspiration for someone.
 
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