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Gekokujo: Bugs and Suggestions

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isa0005

Recruit
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
Also I found this, was posted a while back by a user by the name of Mkhedari. I'd love to see an expansion of the Ainu on a scale that he suggests. While I know that Shakushain's revolt is a ways off before this mod starts, I really would love to be able to establish an Emishi?Anu state on Ezo. I know historically it never did and probably never could happen, but either way, I feel the Ainu need some more love!

But that's unlikely.  It would be easier to just expand some of the options for a would-be Ainu player who would unify his people and retake Ezo and the north.  I love how this mod not only recognizes the Ainus' existence, but also represents them pretty well, even though they're not at all major players and most people have never heard of them.  And I like how Isonsangemat dreams of rebuilding the Emishi.  But so far in my Emishi playthrough, I'm finding it impossible to fulfill our mutual dream because the Ainu are not warriors and because there's no way to establish an Ainu/Emishi state with Ainu lords and units. 

With that goal in mind, it would be great if there were some way to create a simple fort with a village near Otasut and Niputay.  1257 AD gives you the ability to construct not only a regional manor from villages but also a castle from a village.  Once you've built a manor house (not a regional manor) in your village, you can spend 45,000 or 50,000 denars to build a castle.  It appears near your village, and your village is now attached to it.  To compensate the castle or town that your village used to be attached to, another village appears.  For game balance you can only build one such castle per game.  Gekokujo could do the same, and let you pay the chiefs of Otasut and Niputay to have a simple Ainu fort (called a chasi)with a village near each of them, or maybe just one of them.  The chasi would be a simple affair with some earthen mounds, wooden palisades, and a small moat.  Not much, but it's a start.  The chasi and their villages would be classified as belonging to the new Ainu culture in game terms, and would allow you to recruit Ainu units.  However, these units should be able to level up like the Japanese units so that they can eventually be able to fight and not die instantly. 

In another crazy idea, regional manors could have a sort of colonization scheme.  In 1257AD, the regional manors have population numbers.  The higher the number, the more people walk around in it, the more taxes they pay you (it's still not much) and the larger the manorial army you can raise.  Manorial armies are raised by talking to the local constable and telling him to raise an army.  It follows you around and fights on your side, and can be up to 200 or 300 men, I think, but you have to pay the extra upkeep costs or the army will disband or attack (never happened to me, since I always can pay).  The manor's population can get up to about 1,050 before it levels off.  Raising an army will drop both the manor's population and its prosperity.  Both will recover over time at a rate determined by the manor's tax rate.

What I'm suggesting is some sort of system in which manors' populations, once they exceed 1,000, can be transferred to another fief you own to increase its prosperity and change its culture to the one of your manor.  For example, if I had a manor of over 1,000 people near Otasut's castle's village, and I owned, say, the village on the southern tip of Ezo (Hakodate?), I could do a population transfer.  The manor's population would drop to a very low number, Hakodate would see increased prosperity, and I could recruit Ainu units there instead of Japanese.  However, there might be a battle against the enraged villagers first, and I'd take a relations hit with some of the Japanese factions and lords.  On the flip side, you could do this to the Ainu villages, too, like some sort of proto-Kaitakushi.  Or even just transfer people from your manor to your village or some other Japanese place you own to increase prosperity.  And maybe if you did Ainu transfers to northern Japan, you could recruit Emishi horse archers and make Isonsangemat proud!  Villages could cost 1,000 pop, castles 2,000, and towns 3,000 to convert cultures.  Since you can only have one such regional manor per game, and since it takes a while to get the population back up, you couldn't do this too often.  Like most of the other ideas for this submod, they're mostly for that bizarre kind of player with specific tastes, like me.

Proper Ainu faces and hair/beard styles would be nice, though they're acceptable now.  Maybe there could be some Ainu woman faces with the tattooed mustaches, though I wouldn't be keen to court them.  All Ainu units should have massive beards, and the Ezo bow should be a renamed short bow from Warband.  A new set of arrows with their own quiver would be a nice touch but unnecessary.  One of the Ezo outfits, the green one, is actually a lamellar coat.  It could be renamed "Ezo Armor" and given appropriate stats, and a few similar outfits added.  The emush and the warabite-to could be given new hilts and scabbards in the Ainu style.

Anyhow, thats all folks!
Keep up the great work!
 

WolfWitness

Sergeant Knight
Enrique's penchant for cannibalism seriously has to go. There were some tribes that practiced it but it was no where as prevalent as it was in New Guinea. If Enrique needs a macabre trait, headhunting was definitely a thing, particularly in the north.
 

recluse

Sergeant
jacobhinds said:
wouldn't want this to turn into anither installment of Sengoku Rance...
Speak for yourself. But how about we compromise and make it Kichikuou Rance instead? :fruity:
 

phlpp

Knight
WBWF&S
WolfWitness said:
Enrique's penchant for cannibalism seriously has to go. There were some tribes that practiced it but it was no where as prevalent as it was in New Guinea. If Enrique needs a macabre trait, headhunting was definitely a thing, particularly in the north.
Enrique is actually based on a person I know, as an in-joke, not on a historical tribe. Speaking of headhunting in the north -- I just got back from there last night.

My father succumbed to his illness last Sunday and we had his funeral earlier this week in his hometown, Baguio. I am both emotionally and physically too exhausted to work this week, so there is of course a delay. It won't be too long, though. When I was going through my father's computer, I saw that his bookmarks bar had a link to the PCGamer article about mods that included Gekokujo. He also had keen interest in my commercial project right before he passed, so I feel driven to complete both
 
phlpp said:
My father succumbed to his illness last Sunday and we had his funeral earlier this week in his hometown, Baguio.

That's sad news, I had hoped your father would be okay after you mentioned his release from the hospital, my condolences.
Take care.
 

phlpp

Knight
WBWF&S
WolfWitness said:
Damn, I sorry to hear that. My condolences as well. And I'm really sorry if I struck a nerve.
Oh, not at all, don't worry about that

And thank you both
 

spacecwb

Recruit
this is probably a bug, right?

QDGOx9K.jpg


Also I came across this: imgur.com/a/SaFrx
this was on the 3.1 beta
 

spacecwb

Recruit
zyonix said:
spacecwb said:
this is probably a bug, right?

QDGOx9K.jpg

Did this happen to you in a new game?
This happened to me when I continued a 3.0 savegame with 3.1

yeah, the same thing happened to me, just switched over to 3.1 to see if that monk rebel hideout was easier to take. ill have to see if it happens in a new game

edit:
As far as I can tell its easy to fix, you just use the M&B save editor, load up your save, and the value you need to change is in "Global Variables", called num_forts_captured.
Se9ahMH.png
 

Woopzilla

Knight
WBNWM&BWF&SVC
Sorry to hear about your loss... hope you are feeling better.

I feel bad posting this now as the bugs seem trivial, but I enjoy your work a lot and this is the most fun I've had in ages. Other mods usually change too much for the sake of change, but this mod seems perfect in what it does.

Anyway, I found a few more bugs/errors:

My last character never had this but my second character (which is female this time if it matters) keeps getting this error when going in to battle to clear a bandit infested villages (usually when given by a farmer as a quest found at an inn):
http://i.imgur.com/9yTTGfC.png
9yTTGfC.png

Some floating rocks/misplaced scenery items also noticed:

At any castle that uses the same layout as Iwaki Castle (near Sendai). It's the first building after the courtyard killzone ramp. AIs can sometimes get a little stuck there:
http://i.imgur.com/Gd9A5Y7.png
Gd9A5Y7.png

Floating rocks seen at the very back of any village that uses the same layout as Iwanuma (also near Sendai):
http://i.imgur.com/BPI9b5b.png
BPI9b5b.png

Floating rocks that flicker invisible at times at the player spawn location when in any village that uses the same layout as Kashiwazaki (near Kasugayama). Standing near or on top of them can trigger the issue depending on how your camera is positioned:
http://i.imgur.com/5Q4Dq7X.png
http://i.imgur.com/wJeDZwz.png
http://i.imgur.com/MWftG09.png
http://i.imgur.com/2YyAA74.png
5Q4Dq7X.png

wJeDZwz.png

MWftG09.png

2YyAA74.png

Another problem seems to be that the auto-buy feature doesn't seem to remember settings and randomly turns itself off... though it's not too much of an issue.

Other than that and some gate issues, this mod seems to be working perfectly. I think the only thing that could make the game better is if the AI had some script to auto-fill their garrisons to 600+ units. Siege defences are much harder in this mod and the AI just doesn't fill their garrisons enough for it to be challenging once the starting garrison has been defeated.

Anyway, great work so far.
 

Woopzilla

Knight
WBNWM&BWF&SVC
The towns already start with 500 troops or so inside them and they are far from unconquerable. Also, if the player isn't there in the fight itself then the AI just auto-calcs it like a field battle almost with the defence taking huge losses compared to the attacker. Places like Grunwalder Castle in Native are easy to take if you tell your AI allies to just rush the walls while staying back.

But if that's really too high, then it should still be a little higher than what it currently is. The AI splits a chunk of their attacking forces to the garrison and then the castle sits there with 60 men inside it for months and gets taken back and forth constantly. I wish the AI would reinforce the garrison to at least 300 over the span of 6 weeks or so.
 
The main argument against massive garrisons is that sieges are extremely tedious. Gekokujo has done amazing things in making sieges less grating than the horribly designed meatgrinders of native, but you still never go into a siege thinking "yay! Siege!" In the same way you anticipate big field battles against lords you hate.

Inevitably they're faster than native, but multiply the 20 minutes of fighting a 600-man garrison with the hundreds of settlements, and you've got over 50 hours of fighting sieges.

Larger garrisons also mess with the game's AI, scaring them into staying at home. Balancing this is difficult without making armies yolo themselves into fully protected castles.
 

Woopzilla

Knight
WBNWM&BWF&SVC
You make a good point about tediousness. I can agree with that and I think I'm just one of those people who really likes sieges in Gekokujo.

Perhaps if such a thing were added, it could be off by default in the gekokujo mod options in the camp menu. It could be labelled as a 'hard mode' since I feel you gain too much momentum when conquering all of Japan which should be a daunting task.

The thing is, I never help my allies' siege defences as I would take far too many losses and risk capture because they are often very poorly garrisoned. Towns and Castles start with 500 and 300 odd troops each in the beginning and the AI does fine in conquering things. Your Marshall does a good job of clearing out places if you let him fight alone without being there to witness the fight. I want to defend things too as a vassal but it would be suicidal in most cases.

Another thing I was hoping it would fix is the AI beelining straight for weak castles. In my current game as a vassal to the Oda, Jogu-ji Fortress and Nagashima Fortress has been held by a different clan almost every month because the AI goes "Aha! Weak defensive garrison! Gogogogo!". Those fortresses have been held by the Tokugawa, Asakura, Ikko Ikki, Takeda and other clans in just a span of a few months because the AI just wont defend it up.

It's not really a major issue... just something I thought would make the gameplay a little tougher which I would like. I understand not everyone is going to love the idea of harder sieges though.
 

PPQ_Purple

Knight
Honestly I like sieges in Gek, I really do. But my style of doing them is to basically storm the walls, kill as many opponents as I can and than retreat or lose. Repeat until the castle is out of people. So 600 men garrisons would be a huge pain for me. I'd much rather see 200 men garrisons and a brute force fix for the autocalc to give the defenders a 5x bonus or something.
 
But that would slow the campaign down a lot as well. In an ideal system a campaign would go like this:

1. Allied Armies march into enemy territory, maybe siege a few castles, but their primary objective is to find and destroy the enemy army.
2. Enemy armies meet them in the field.
3. Massive decisive battle.
4. Allied armies thus able to carpet siege unimpeded.

In this system you wouldn't really need massive garrisons because sieging early on wouldn't be the main goal. In early versions of 1257AD it was like this, and campaigns could make or break a kingdom. When garrisons are that massive or punishing you might only lose a couple of settlements even if your entire field army gets wiped out, which is a bit silly.
 

PPQ_Purple

Knight
On the other hand that is historical. The object of war is not and was newer just to kill the enemy until they can't fight any more. It's to take ground. And the way to take ground is by taking the castles that dominate it.
Back in the day field battles were really not the norm. And they certainly did not decide wars the way you imagine them to have. For a field battle to happen you had to have a situation where both armies felt reasonably confident they could win. And that did not happen often. And when it did happen an army that was loosing could just run away and regroup, preferably behind a good set of walls. Furthermore, just destroying your enemies field army did in fact not win you the war. Especially not if you took large losses in the process. Because again, those walls made sure a numerically inferior force could hold a superior one at bay until a new army was raised.

The current system where you have to wipe out your enemies army and that buys you time to siege a couple of settlements before they regroup is much more historical. And frankly much more fun as well. I don't want a clan to go down to a single campaign.
 
PPQ_Purple said:
Back in the day field battles were really not the norm. And they certainly did not decide wars the way you imagine them to have.

I know that, but it was common for an army to attempt to destroy the enemy field army before claiming territory. That was often done by trying to force a surrender by starving them out or harassing them into avoiding your armies, but Warband isn't that complex, so big battles it is.

The downsides to sieging straight away are apparent in Warband as well. The AI does it all the time and they just keep trading castles for half the war, and aimlessly raiding the other. They never bother to remove the enemy's ability to take the castles right back so the war drags on with nothing getting done.

PPQ_Purple said:
The current system where you have to wipe out your enemies army and that buys you time to siege a couple of settlements before they regroup is much more historical. And frankly much more fun as well. I don't want a clan to go down to a single campaign.

Eh, started posting before I'd read the whole post. In that case I agree with you. But the way the AI regenerates its armies in a couple of days often makes blind sieging a better option which is a bit silly.
 
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