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Garrisons should carry the owner's banners not kingdoms.
- Thread starter Axxoy
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Uncle Khai
Recruit
yea
I understand and agree.
Howeeeever, playing the white knight advocate here, i see the point for TW keeping it simple: to keep it simple. Their desire seems to make it visually easy to see and understand, not to recreate a complex and colorful medieval world, only an easily distinguishable kingdom from the next.
I heartily disapprove of this, and gladly embrace the banner mods like Custom Banners and Uniforms.
Howeeeever, playing the white knight advocate here, i see the point for TW keeping it simple: to keep it simple. Their desire seems to make it visually easy to see and understand, not to recreate a complex and colorful medieval world, only an easily distinguishable kingdom from the next.
I heartily disapprove of this, and gladly embrace the banner mods like Custom Banners and Uniforms.
Do you even understand what Im talking about? What TW did is actually making it more complicated since the troops under my command have my banners but the garrison do not have my banners but those guys are my garrison in my own castle. What youre talking about got nothing to do with the behaviour Im talking about, Im not talking about banner designs colors etc. and I dont care about those mods. What Im suggesting is fixing the extremely poor design. I want my troops to have my banner on their shields, because they are my garrison troops. Why do my garrison troops have king's sigil?
I mean you completely missed the point as if you completely misunderstood the problem here.
PS. to answer your unrelated comment, people are not dumb to not being able to differentiate different colors, we all perfectly knew who was who in Warband, were we geniuses back then? Or are we stupid now? I feel extremely insulted with this design choices aimed at 5 year olds or at people with low IQ. But I wont discuss such matters anymore, not like what I suggest above will ever be implemented either.
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Yes.
As I meant it, tw doest want a colorful (i.e. realistic) world. They have fallen to the minimalistic design trends, probably thinking less complexity means ease to understand. No matter how false that claim is.
At the same time, garrisons seem like an 'oversight', just as it makes little sense, that they are "kingdom troops" detracting from the logic that they would serve the lord of the manor, not the king. Again, this seems too complex, fitting into the minimalistic and simplistic design, that hopes to be easier, while actually becoming harder to distinguish.
I meant no offense, sorry if any was given. As always, what i claim is that the design principles behind the game development are producing such bitter fruits. The intention might be "good", to streamline the game, but the actual results are far from it.
Lastly, like I said, i passionately dislike both the results and the principles behind them.
As I meant it, tw doest want a colorful (i.e. realistic) world. They have fallen to the minimalistic design trends, probably thinking less complexity means ease to understand. No matter how false that claim is.
At the same time, garrisons seem like an 'oversight', just as it makes little sense, that they are "kingdom troops" detracting from the logic that they would serve the lord of the manor, not the king. Again, this seems too complex, fitting into the minimalistic and simplistic design, that hopes to be easier, while actually becoming harder to distinguish.
I meant no offense, sorry if any was given. As always, what i claim is that the design principles behind the game development are producing such bitter fruits. The intention might be "good", to streamline the game, but the actual results are far from it.
Lastly, like I said, i passionately dislike both the results and the principles behind them.
Why, you are a vassal, the fiefs you own, are owned by your king, you are only allowed to govern it for your king.
If you want your garrisons troops to carry your banner, you must become a faction leader.
Yeah my own garrison troops that I personally recruited, changing their sigils on shields magically makes so much sense. Yeah I dont know anything about what being a vassal means and I dont understand how my troops should carry king's sigil although theyre men under my command, and you are 100% correct with your brilliant way of thinking. Thanks for giving me a history lesson and how TW is the ultimate game designers. I humbly suggest you to learn what feudalism is, the differences between being a "vassal lord", and a "governor" governing in king's place. And youve also missed a point, going with your logic, they should just completely remove banners and make everyone carry the king's sigil, why? Because the men you recruit also belong to king as they are his serfs, not their liege lord's serfs, right?
Yes, its an oversight, the people I put into my garrison should carry my sigil, not king's. Thats not how its supposed to be, as I am their liege lord, not some other guy. As for the colorful medieval world comment, they couldve easily avoided confusion with clever game design, right now its just pure laziness and a quick bland solution. This seems too complex? Really? Making garrison troops carry the owner of the castle's sigil is too complex? Are you really serious? Why bend backwards that much to justify poor and lazy design in the name of "minimalism"? Its a simple fix, its an oversight and not complex at all, period. Is TW bunch of amateurs that dont know how to develop a game using their own in-house engine that such simple things are too complex? Or do you assume everyone who play the game are children or dumb people? If so why do my garrisons carry king's sigil? Isnt it too complex for us simple minded people to differentiate who is who while defending your own castle? Yeah, because I keep hammering my own men not recognizing their bright red shields with king's sigil on it, god knows what wouldve happened if my garrison carried my sigil. As you said, whole garrison troop behavior right now does not fit into minimalistic design at all, thats clearly an oversight.. Sigh...
Expanding on "minimalist design" and avoiding confusion; humans learns things faster by noticing the differences, not the similarities and we memorize things with comparisons, why do you think we confuse twins? Why do you think children learn how to put bunch of squares, triangles into fitting boxes? Differentiating thins is the first thing we humans learn, sameness is confusing. Having not played Warband in years I can still remember Count Haringoth's black and white banner with eagle on it, or Count Clais' , yellowish banner with a bear sigil. I dare you to remember the banner of dey Arromanc, who their members are, or dey Jelind, only thing youre gonna remember is that they have red and yellow colors. I bet 100 bucks you wont remember a thing without looking at game wiki or launching the game up right now. So with this flawed design choice, TW killed all the characteristics of clans, houses, and npc characters. I dare say 99% of the people who play the game do not remember who is who, they just look at the kingdom color as its the only thing we can differentiate kingdoms right now. Do you see how we learn and how human mind works? Right now bannerlord is identical to pacman, same formula, kill different colored entities, thats it, no depth, nothing of creativity behind it.
And Im not offended, not by you, Im offended at how badly designed the game is, by playing few hours you can suggest 100s of different improvements to TW, and extremely disappointed at how people try to justify every poor choice TW made. I wonder who their lead designer is (as they should step down immediately) and how this game has passed the QA examination (QA team shouldve been in serious trouble by now), I feel constantly insulted and offended by extremely dumbed down mechanics, let alone colorful banners, I cant even put my own sigil on my own troops in my own castle. IGN was generous to give them 6.5, I wouldnt give them more than a 5 and thats for the rare moments where you are not screwed by stupid AI in battles, and for merely the large scale of it, rest of the game is pure junk right now. And that couldve been easily a 9/10 had they listened to what people are saying. At this point I just pray for a solid competitor to come up with a better game, if that happens I'll pretend BL never existed, yeah "Bannerlord", where garrisoned troops do not carry their "lord's banner". The game only sells not because its good, its because there is no other alternatives utilizing the same formula, the formula sells itself no matter how badly implemented it is right now, a better alternative will surely steal all BL's playerbase. And I hope you take no offence as well.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
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You have said it. I never tried to justify TW's 
not in a long while now. I merely try to explain to those interested in the topic at hand, should they read our words in a future unknow, what i believe to be their reasoning. As you have made it abundantly clear: it is bad design. Pure and simple. In theory it might work, i dunno, my degrees are in more interesting and relevant topics than "the amount of pixels a sidebar should have". Apple did the minimalist 15 years ago and 15 years down the line everyone is still trying to imitate it.
Gods, I miss Win XP nice and colorful design, instead of these jumbled up boxes we have, for the sake of "better fitting a phone". All it took was one basement dweller going "heeey, what if we do the same in all games?"
And here we be. With 11th cent. Kingdoms behaving like 17th C. Empires... because some dumb idiot thinks that having more than 8 colors on-screen at any given momebt might cause seizures and make it too hard on consoomers, as if everyone was a 5 yo kid.
I get your angery, and i believe you just unlocked it in me. Right around the time of the birth of the babby jeezus. Thanks, I needed that.
not in a long while now. I merely try to explain to those interested in the topic at hand, should they read our words in a future unknow, what i believe to be their reasoning. As you have made it abundantly clear: it is bad design. Pure and simple. In theory it might work, i dunno, my degrees are in more interesting and relevant topics than "the amount of pixels a sidebar should have". Apple did the minimalist 15 years ago and 15 years down the line everyone is still trying to imitate it. Gods, I miss Win XP nice and colorful design, instead of these jumbled up boxes we have, for the sake of "better fitting a phone". All it took was one basement dweller going "heeey, what if we do the same in all games?"
And here we be. With 11th cent. Kingdoms behaving like 17th C. Empires... because some dumb idiot thinks that having more than 8 colors on-screen at any given momebt might cause seizures and make it too hard on consoomers, as if everyone was a 5 yo kid.
I get your angery, and i believe you just unlocked it in me. Right around the time of the birth of the babby jeezus. Thanks, I needed that.
You have said it. I never tried to justify TW's
Gods, I miss Win XP nice and colorful design, instead of these jumbled up boxes we have, for the sake of "better fitting a phone". All it took was one basement dweller going "heeey, what if we do the same in all games?"
And here we be. With 11th cent. Kingdoms behaving like 17th C. Empires... because some dumb idiot thinks that having more than 8 colors on-screen at any given momebt might cause seizures and make it too hard on consoomers, as if everyone was a 5 yo kid.
I get your angery, and i believe you just unlocked it in me. Right around the time of the birth of the babby jeezus. Thanks, I needed that.
Indeed, what they wanted to do was to make the game as casual as possible so people can play it easily, but the execution literally killed all the fun in the game, and its outright absurd how it looks like it was designed by a 10 year old as his school project. It looks and plays like a mobile game at this point, pacman formula. People mostly discuss attention to detail in rpgs and other games, but its laughable how let alone attention to detail, this game lacks general features and principles of what makes a good game.
I miss top gear
Earth Dragon
Sergeant
I'm not sure how much this was a minimalist issue and maybe just a coding oversight or issue.
This doesn't seem like a hard ask or change, though, I am pretty sure that if it's my castle, and I am on seen defending it, then I can control all the troops as my own. Where as if it's not my fief, and I decide to park my behind there, I don't get to control the troops that are stationed there (arguably better anyway, that way I can plant my melee troops on the wall in front of the ladders, and allow the stock defenders to shift as needed).
Though, I wonder if the thought was that players would eventually want THEIR banner flown and showcased on all garrisoned troops when they were King.
But I'd be fine with militia sporting faction symbols, as a general sign that they are there just to fight for their homes, while garrisoned troops sport the Fief owner symbol
This doesn't seem like a hard ask or change, though, I am pretty sure that if it's my castle, and I am on seen defending it, then I can control all the troops as my own. Where as if it's not my fief, and I decide to park my behind there, I don't get to control the troops that are stationed there (arguably better anyway, that way I can plant my melee troops on the wall in front of the ladders, and allow the stock defenders to shift as needed).
Though, I wonder if the thought was that players would eventually want THEIR banner flown and showcased on all garrisoned troops when they were King.
But I'd be fine with militia sporting faction symbols, as a general sign that they are there just to fight for their homes, while garrisoned troops sport the Fief owner symbol
Is there a name for the type of poster who always insists on coming up with after-the-fact justifications for things that are clearly either mistakes, oversights, or just plain poor design as if they were intentional big brain moves from the start? There should be a name for that. I propose "Sargot simps"
I would upvote if I could
