Gaming In Education.

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Hello everyone I am currently doing a project at uni in which I am looking at the future of the strategy gaming genre, I am looking at what new technologies are being used, like motion capture and generally try and see what is coming in the next few years, for part of my work I want to discuss if there is a more active role that games an play in mainstream education, so for this I have prepared a short questionnaire, I will be very greatfull if you fill it out and I will be your adoring fan forever! (once all this uni work is over of course)
If you cant be bothered to answer all of it its ok but please id be really grateful if you did a few. thanks!



1) What age did you start playing strategy games?

2) What where the first games you played?

3) What is your favourite game?

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?

:cool: Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?


Any extra comments:


 
what is this a homework thread

1. -38 years old
2. the one coming out next year
3. holocaust simulator 1944 VII
4. all the particle physics
5. i certainly have from holocaust simulator 1944 VII
6. definitely because of the holocaust
7. if they were extended to the holocaust yes
8. :cool:
9. they might not let you play holocaust simulator 1944 VII
 
1. 6
2. AoE
3. Homeworld
4. True Freedom of movement, detail in world, story, and overall balance. Good music is essential for the finishing touch.
5. Aye
6. Aye
7. Nei
8. Educators can be stupid/ complexity costs money
9. it's not fun if it's purely educational; it can be addictive.
 
1: 13
2: Age of Empires, Rollercoaster Tycoon, Sim City 2000, Civ 3, Flight Sims, TW games
3: No favorite, but I've been playing Batman Arkham games, Civ 4 and 5, Medieval II, Witcher II, King Arthur, Skyrim, GTA IV, Warband, etc.
4: Involved gameplay is huge for me, I love more open ended games as well, I like realistic combat systems, and in sims, the more realism the better.
5: Sure. More than learning from them though, I feel they've made me want to learn more.
6: I actually got into history because of Age of Empires.
7: Sure.
8: No funding, and teachers don't actually believe that they'd help students learn.
9: Kids play a lot of games as it is. I think even more games in their lives won't help things much.
 
1. 4
2. AoE (1), Roller Coaster Tycoon, (Microsoft) Flght Simulator
3. Europa Universallis 3
4. The scope of games... It's awesome to be able to control huge empires, and fight awesome battles, if even for an hour. And it's a great stress release
5. Most definitely. I feel I have learned more about history from playing Paradox's games than I have in most of my history classes. Age of Empires taught me the very basics of supply-demand economics at age 5 :grin:
6.I'd say both. I love history, and I've always wanted to learn more about the games I've played, and have also beenand also love to play games about history I know.
7.Most definitely.
8.A lack of support from the game industry, whose image it might hurt if their products were put in school. A lack of support from Parents and Teachers, who don't feel it would help their children learn, and a lack of support from the children, who see most in-class games as a waste of time.
9. Yes. Although I'm sure itwould be great to get kkids excited about their learning and all that, I can't help but think that while it might increase the amount of time and effort kids put into learing, it would decrease the quality of this learning as well, at a very steep rate. I feel there is a very fine line between learning while having fun, and having fun while "learning", but really just having fun.

I'm sure it would be great for those progressive new age private schools n stuff, but I really don't think gaming in our schools has any place for the larger majority of schools.
 
"Ok class, now turn to Chapter 3 in your quest log and tell me how many creeps you farmed last night for your homework."
 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games?
9'ish.

2) What where the first games you played?
A wide gamut of early games.

3) What is your favourite game?
Depends on the day; Fallout II, Freelancer, early betas of Counter-Strike and my mod for the Warband engine are near the top of my personal lists.

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?
First off, as a game designer, I hate your list. 

Nothing personal, but if you're trying to learn more about this topic, you need to know your territory better.

"Gameplay" covers everything from U.I. to balance systems to game design to replayability; games can have superb points in various areas, yet be inferior to the point of being lousy titles due to deficiencies elsewhere within that area alone. 

A game can be brilliantly conceived, yet so lacking graphically that it is not enticing; it can have great gameplay and graphics, yet be dragged down by consistently-poor sound design. 

What makes a game "good" is a very complex subject.

It's better not to bother asking that question, basically; the answer's pretty meaningless unless you ask for a lot of details, and then it's taking away from the central thrust of your questionnaire.

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?
Absolutely.

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?
The other way around, definitely.  I don't regard games like that to be "history" in any real sense.

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?
No. 

They distort history considerably in order to be the games the designers wanted to achieve, or bog the players down in myriad details that wouldn't serve a useful educational purpose.

A better example of a game that could serve as a history lesson would be a title using the Warband engine where the player is a Neolithic tribal leader and has to get his tribe through a tough year of drought and winter, while interacting with other tribes, engaging in trade and finding raw materials to help the tribe support itself, with a lot of emphasis on tool-making, understanding the interactions of early societies and the experience of hunting, gathering and generally trying to survive in an early human world. 

This game doesn't exist, but it could.  A good educational game about history should be immersive; don't just talk to people about history, take them there, make them feel it in their bones.

:cool: Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic
Because the people who approve them are generally older people who were born before video games existed and frequently don't relate to gamer culture, or the people whose papers they approved of, allowing them to become professors in turn.  In short, the blind have led the blind in this field to a really amazing degree.

They are also the same "educational computation" people who constantly have their grad students reinvent the wheel and write whole new projects to duplicate things you can do with common, off-the-shelf Web development kits on a regular basis, and other major issues abound in terms of how they approach this subject. 

In short, the academic people who are mainly in charge of determining what gets built are idiots who couldn't get work as coders outside their field and most of them should have gotten fired, but people were so desperate to get "computer science" instructors into academics in the 1970s and 80s that idiots became tenured professors and consultants and have retarded serious progress in this area for a couple of generations.  It's as simple as that.

This is changing, but very, very slowly.

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?
Developed properly, by game designers with input from educators about the information to be taught and metrics for measuring that education has occurred, no.  Can a game educate anybody about anything?  No; there are a lot of topics that I wouldn't teach via a game, like auto mechanics, where muscle memory is important, or chemistry, where to go beyond the basics it's both pretty abstract and very mathematical.

However, this isn't how it works, thus far; most decent educational software is written by game developers for profit but aimed at low age cohorts, using simple repetition and a bit of action (which is why the "kiddie education" games are actually fun and usually fairly polished- their developers expect to make a profit using a fairly conventional yardstick).

The stuff written for teenagers+ is usually written in universities by graduate students who are mainly writing it to get their degree; most of that stuff is incredibly poorly designed and is neither fun nor particularly effective as an educational medium.

The reasons for this are economic in nature; the wrong incentives exist and the market isn't functioning properly.

Any extra comments:

Basically, all of the people claiming to teach this stuff or anything like it at a high-school level or higher should be fired, and the free market should be used to encourage conventional game developers to tackle this problem. 

Game developers understand the technical side far better than unpaid or poorly-compensated students do; they understand what "fun" means and what a decent U.I. looks like and what players expect in terms of design decisions; they aren't likely to come up with some horrid thing that could use WSAD controls and a mouse but instead decided to use the numpad because the grad student is a leftie and "just prefers that, because it's so logical" and similar brain-dead things that happen constantly when these things are built by the academic community.

If the money spent on all of the dead-end projects that get produced every year (and it's a very considerable sum) was instead used to kick-start conventional game developers who needed funding and were quite willing to produce an educational project at a profit with the funding providing their venture capital, we'd have dozens of serious, polished educational titles every year, instead of hundreds of one-off, poorly-developed and designed projects that mainly line the pockets of people who couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag and wouldn't know the difference between D20 and Sacred if you whacked them over the heads with their respective manuals.
 
Xenoargh thanks for this really great replies sorry about generalising game play, I do have a whole section explaining the different aspects to this but I just thought Id just list a fe things to give people ideas, Ill edit up a bit tomorrow morning.

but seriously thanks for doing this to all of you.

Edit: - Dryvus
 
1) Dunno, between 8-12 :smile:

2) Age of Empires 2 and Warcraft 2 are the earliest I remember.

3) Probably Warcraft 3

4) I've always liked base building and playing co-op with friends. Also different things from game to game. Warcraft 3 had awesome RPG elements and great custom maps. Age of Empire had epic battles. Company of Heroes has great tactical gameplay. The Caesar games had awesome city management and building.

5) Not really. I'm not very competitive, If I had been I might have become better at multitasking I suppose :smile:

6) I'm a fan of the medieval setting because it's a great setting for video games. I suppose movies by Monty Python also inspired interest

7) Most def'. That's a "yes" in gangster speak

9) Going back to the older forms of education might be difficult.
 
1. Erratically at ages 7-9, finally became dedicated age 10.

2. First strategy game I played was Starcraft at a friend's house. My parents got me Rise of Nations and Medieval II: Total War for my tenth birthday.

3. Favorite strategy game is either M2TW or Rise of Nations still, favorite game is MB Warband.

4. M2TW began my interest of the Medieval Ages, which led to my interest of the original MB. I am personally interested in real (no magic) medieval warfare and way of life.

5. I learned resource management (:p), patience, and medieval history. Strategy games helped me immensely in analytical abilities.

6. Games like the TW series got me interested in history.

7. Hell yes!

8. People underestimate the intelligence of children, the educational video game sector is underdeveloped and ignored by educational boards, games able to appeal to both boys and girls and boys are difficult to make, violent images are extremely controlled, and video games are not taken seriously by almost everyone.

9. Appealing to girls is difficult when it comes to video games, opposition to video game use will be fierce, and there developing an entertaining and educational video game that fulfills government standards when it comes to education will be difficult.

Extra comments: Video games used in education must be able to teach people history that is not exclusive to battles if they are to be taken seriously.



Also, I suggest adding a question that asks what kind of a scenario could be well explained by a video game.
 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games?
6
2) What where the first games you played?
Age of Empires
3) What is your favourite game?
Warband.
4) What about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?
Can't really answer that, everything I guess, the graphics aren't bad and the combat system is nice, been playing M&B for quite long now anyway.
5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?
Yes.
6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?
I liked history before, the games just made me look for more of the particular eras/troops/events.
7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?
No, not really.
8. Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic
Don't know any games used in education.
9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?
Hm, no, not really.
 
Very cool! I did something similar for my own university dissertation. It's a great topic to explore.


1) What age did you start playing strategy games?
5 or 6

2) What where the first games you played?
Faery Tale Adventure, Ultima IV or Desert Strike on the Amiga.

3) What is your favourite game?
Mount and Blade or EU3.

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?
I like being able to tell my own story and have enough of an impact to create my own world.

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?
Absolutely! Age of Empires 2 was a gold mine, as was Colonisation and Civilisation.

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?
From games, into history.

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?
Yes, though the historical inaccuracies would need to be tidied up. Sid Meier has himself said that he creates the factions / units first, and then writes the history around them to encompass what he is trying to achieve. Therefore these games are more historically-based than historically-accurate. Also, if you are looking at games in education, take a look at Making History Gold by Muzzy Lane, it was a history education simulation which became popular as a proper strategy game.

:cool: Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic
Because few developers target schools in particular. My friends had a company where they created software specially for school and found that demand and interest was very high.

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?
Yes, as noted above developers tend to bend history to fit with what is fun, rather than what is accurate. I don't think that games as a direct teaching tool would be as effective as a teacher or text books, however as a method to awaken an interest in a subject then they have massive potential. Games like Total War, EU3 or Civilisation should give just enough information to make kids want to find out more themselves, from more reliable sources. That said there are also some intrinsic benefits, from reaction speeds on FPS's to learning strategy in RTS or 4X games, bear in mind that seminal works like "On War" by Clauswitz and "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, are routinely used to create AI, and as such this can provide students with the chance to learn such strategic techniques for themselves, without actually realising that they are learning something. Basically what I am saying is that games are not just about force feeding facts to the kids, but rather there is a whole suit of skills which can be taught, just by playing them.
 
1. 8
2. Tiberian Sun, Age of Empires, Civ 2, Warcraft, Master of Olympus if it counts.
3. In strategy genre, that'd be Rome Total War.
4. Even though it wasn't exactly realistic, I did love reading all the descriptions stuff had, like the historical background information for units and buildings. Then there was building a functional empire.
5. Yes, not as much as in school, but pretty damn close  :smile:
6. I think... both. For me, those two have always gone in hand. Even though I'm actively studying history in high school now, I still draw a lot upon my gaming experience and the more reliable ones have pulled me through quite a few tests.
7. Of course, and not just from my personal enjoyment, but because I think others could learn a lot too. We live in an age of information and technology, this kind of education can be only beneficial.
8. Because frankly, the "geniuses" up top don't know **** about what they're doing.
9. If used regularly, it'll be hard to keep the class focused. Having a project every now and then would be better.

Any extra comments: If there was someone in charge who actually knew all this stuff, they could even get it done. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be anyone.
 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games?
7

2) What where the first games you played?

The first game I ever played, and enjoyed was Age of Empires 1

3) What is your favourite game?
Can't say I have a favourite, but I'll answer Left 4 Dead

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?
Social aspect, playing with irl friends, voicechat on. Hilarious.

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?
Yes

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?

Yes. Or certainly influenced by it.

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?

I would, but because I could play, not because of the educational aspect.

:cool: Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic

Don't know, never played education games. But I'd guess, because companies can win a lot more money investing in commercial games rather than educational games.

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?

People will get more addicted. People who game 12/7 will be caming 24/7 since they'd game at school as well. Possibly not a optimal way to educate children.


Any extra comments:


Possible that games lose the enjoyable aspect due to the fact that it is labelled as educational.
I'm not sure games are the best way to educate kids in everything. Historically, maybe. Definitely when it comes to develop the creativity of children. An example is Minecraft, but this is something parents should encourage. School should be for concrete knowledge and facts, no?

 
`1.  16

  2. "D-Day", "Stalingrad" by Avalon Hill

  3.  EU3

  4.It's length and gameplay.

  5.Absolutely.

  6.I was into history way before "Age of Empires".

  7. Games have definitely been a part of my education, why Frisian Dude gave himself that screen name, for example.

  8. Not much payoff for developers.

  9. Effectively developed games would have only a small educational effect.
 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games? Don't rightly know. Young though. 7?

2) What where the first games you played? No idea. HOMM 3 demo, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, AoEII, Seven Kingdoms, Metal Knights, Zeus: Master of Olympus, some game with Greeks, Phoenicians, fantasy and the golden fleece, C&C 95, Dune 2000. Pick one and check the date, I have no clue which came first.

3) What is your favourite game? This question is pretty much impossible. I've greatly enjoyed all of the above and left out a hell of a lot more. Stronghold, Starcraft and Warcraft are all good contenders though.

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)? The fact that they were fun. :razz:

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games? Mai inglish is verrie goed thenx toe gayms.

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round? Invalid question. :razz: Like history a lot but I'm not sure what influence it had on my gaming. C&C isn't exactly historic. :razz:

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?
I don't see how, but could be neat.
8 ) Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic
Bcuz games are 4 kids and kids are eediots.  :mrgreen: Therefore, any adult playing any game is a childish idiot too and we need to market games to that demographic, by gum!

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education? I'm not sure how best to optimize the educatitude of games. :razz:

Any extra comments:I haven't played any "strategy" games in a while. I either know them too well, they don't appeal to me anymore or they plain don't work. Tried re-installing Civ III: Conquests a while back, but no worky. Pity, I <3 the game.
 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games?
5

2) What where the first games you played?

Age of empires 2

3) What is your favourite game?
Starcraft2, dungeon defenders, to many to name D:

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?
fun, challenging, makes me think, co-operative, strategy. Scale for SC2.

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?
Yes

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?
Yes, a lot.

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?
Yes, tweaked, I believe they could be excellent educational tools.

Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic
lack of funding, lack of care, limited perception on computer technology in general. And because kids cannot be trusted.

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?
people are bad at trust and responsibility, they just are. It will help those who care and no one else.

 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games? 23

2) What where the first games you played? Empire Earth, Red Alter

3) What is your favourite game? Hearts of Iron II Doomsday Armageddon.

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)? The fact I get to lord over the underlings

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games? I have learnt how not to do many military stategies.

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round? Other way around, don't think there were any Strategy games around when I got into history.

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested? Europa certainly, but not the other two.

:cool: Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic? As people are teh stupidz

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education? Peadophilia or something I dunno cock in mouth.


Any extra comments: I think EU3 could be used to help visualise complicated historical subjects like the re-unification of Italy etc.
 
1) What age did you start playing strategy games?

Four or so if I remember rightly. Dunno, when did the Commodore +4 come out?

2) What where the first games you played?

Buggered if I remember the name. It was a turn based wargame type thing where you had to defend your oil rigs while destroying your opponents, utilising submarines, aircraft, aircraft carriers and the like (I particularly remember one unit being a swarm of cruise missiles). Probably had a cold war theme given the era, insomuch as such games could be said to have any theme. Bit hard to bring out geopolitics when you only have 20k of memory and 8 colours.

3) What is your favourite game?
I'd likely give a different answer depending on the day of the week, my mood and what I felt like playing at the moment. So I'll go with the first strategy game I remember as being a legendary classic and say Chaos : The Battle of Wizards.

4) what about it do you like in particular (gameplay graphics models scale)?
Fairly simple rules with a pretty basic premise (it was a bit like Magic the Gathering, except about fifteen years before Richard Garfield came out with that one. In fact he nicked a few concepts from it, as he doesn't mind admitting) that led to an incredibly detailed and complex game, like all the best ones. Oh, it was by Julian Gollop too, who went on to produce X-Com.

5) Do you believe you have learnt from games?
Not directly. Although getting games running back in the good old days was a veritable education in the basic fundamentals of computing. Which given my career probably explains a lot.

6) If you like history, did you get into it because of games like age of empires and total war, or the other way round?
Other way around. I was studying Classical Civilisation when Age of Empires was released.

7) If Total war, Age Of Empire and Europa Universalis games where to be used as part of education, would you be interested?
Depends on what they were being used for. I can't see Total War or AoE being useful in any large part. Paradox on the other hand is a different story since it abstractly models the societies of the time. I suspect Victoria would have been a more fun way of teaching the Industrial Revolution than the stuff we had. Then again, Victoria didn't go into quite so much detail with regards to bawdy houses as a certain 19th century reverend.

:cool: Why do you think games used in education are so ....basic
Not all of them are. Part of the issue you get developing educational software however is that you have to keep it simple - not only do you not really have a lot of time in the classroom for something like Europa Universalis, but schools don't generally buy lab computers with state of the art hardware either.

9) Can you see any draw backs in using games for education?
The problem is most games are by necessity abstractions, so there's always the problem of game versus reality. To take Victoria as an example again, the best you could glean is a basic overview of Victorian society in terms of class, some of the effects of industry and the free trade / protectionism debate; but it's an overview in the same sense that saying "Windows makes PC's work" is an overview - technically incorrect and not really detailed enough to suit anything beyond the general education level. So pretty much restricted to primary level education where it's more important to know of the subject rather than understand it.
Although again, it depends on what you're teaching. The above wouldn't really be applicable to things which can be directly modelled - Universe Sandbox for example is probably far more effective at teaching and experimenting with basic astrophysics than trying to do all the equations in your head; but then it does derive from an actual lab simulator.
 
1) 10 (qualified guess)
2) Super Mario bros (on Nintendo (NES)) Later games for Amiga: Gravity, Eye of the Beholder, Bomberman, Zool, Lemmings, Sensible Soccer, and many more...
3) Mount&Blade: Warband
4) Gameplay (combat mechanism) and open ended world with RPG elements.
5) Yes
6) Yes, Age of Empires did spark some interest in cultures and historical people I would have otherwise not heard about.
7) Yes.
8.) Small budgets is all I can think of...
9) I see limitations, but combined with other forms of educational material I see none.
 
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