Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.

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Schiester said:
I'm sick of garbage animations and the same old swipe left swing left swipe right swing right. I hope they don't copy and paste from warband but unfortunately that's what it looks like. I want different fighting styles. Of course fanboys are fine with unrealistic rehashed garbage which sickens me. I just don't understand how people want the same old combat system we have seen in literally every other mount and blade game. I want some evolution. Some progress to show from 2008-2015. Something new. Like seriously the series hadn't changed from 2008-2011 which is fine to me. I mean c'mon though, its 2015. Time to step up Taleworlds.

Well it's a sequel to the Mount & Blade series, not some totally new game, so it's normal that they want to implement the same combat, but they might improve it from what we got now.
 
Schiester said:
I'm sick of garbage animations and the same old swipe left swing left swipe right swing right. I hope they don't copy and paste from warband but unfortunately that's what it looks like. I want different fighting styles. Of course fanboys are fine with unrealistic rehashed garbage which sickens me. I just don't understand how people want the same old combat system we have seen in literally every other mount and blade game. I want some evolution. Some progress to show from 2008-2015. Something new. Like seriously the series hadn't changed from 2008-2011 which is fine to me. I mean c'mon though, its 2015. Time to step up Taleworlds.

There was quite a lot of change from the original to warband actually. Tons of mechanics were added and like a good sequel, it iterated on the success of the previous game. Bannerlord is going to continue that by the looks of it, keeping the core (and very successful) mechanics the same and making more minor adjustments and additions. What you seem to want is an entirely different game.
 
Yeah, transition from vanilla to Warband was pretty smooth for me, but there's plenty of threads in which people complain about being unable to adjust from one to other. It's quite unfair to say that it was stagnant just because 4-directions attack/block base stayed the same, while combat system was changing even between early versions of Warband itself.

For now, as we have no actual info, I won't judge Bannerlord combat system. So far I just know it gives the old M&B vibes, which isn't bad for me. We will see how it plays.
 
i find it really amusing and funny at the same time about some people whining and *****ing about how "bad" and its just a copy and paste from warband regarding bannerlord's combat... remember guys its still a WORK IN PROGRESS.. comeback and start whining that Bonerlord's combat has no improvements from Warband when we get to end of beta.. we all know that from then and now, alot could happen.. and i'm not going to be surprised that when beta arrives, you'll see a somewhat different combat mechanics from what you've seen from the video..
 
blackmamba24 said:
i find it really amusing and funny at the same time about some people whining and *****ing about how "bad" and its just a copy and paste from warband regarding bannerlord's combat... remember guys its still a WORK IN PROGRESS.. comeback and start whining that Bonerlord's combat has no improvements from Warband when we get to end of beta.. we all know that from then and now, alot could happen.. and i'm not going to be surprised that when beta arrives, you'll see a somewhat different combat mechanics from what you've seen from the video..

We're going off interviews. Sure, we'd take the videos we've seen into account, but there's also INTERVIEWS. We're not *****ing, we're having a discussion and stating facts. This is from the interview:

"Q: You have done a great job, improving the combat system from M&B to WB. Between M&B's horizontal slashes and WB's more florid animations-in which you have added the kick feature-there is a gulf. How do you plan to proceed with M&B2? Will it be simple evolution, or do you consider to completely transform the hit and parry system?
A: We are re-doing everything again, we are not using anything from the old games. As for the game mechanics, I know for sure we are going to work on the parry system. We implemented it into the later versions of Warband. We are also rewriting all the animations for blocking, for example. Blocking was nice, but you know, was a little “blocky”, back then. There are some attacks that you can’t just stop with an upper block, you have to divert it, we are taking care of stuff like that. It’s going to be an evolution, as you said, not a revolution. The combat system is going to be essentially the same, but it’s going to be improved. A lot. We changed programming language and everything…"
 
Given how moddable the game seems like it's going to be I wonder if mods will be able to create things like stances or dodges. Or even if in bannerlord: New setting type expanion tw might offer their interpretation of a more sophisticated combat. Meanwhile leaving the core of m&b the same with the original release of bannerlord.
 
I'd imagine "diverting" attacks simply means the animation changes, and not how you block with the mouse. (Four directions seems the logical limit, it would be strange to surpass that.) But if what we saw in the video was indeed a weapons crushing through a dagger block, heavy weapons might crush through some weapon's that aren't heavy enough to divert (let alone outright block) them.

If that's the case, 2h weapons might have some advantage for competitive, and make them more viable. I'm in favor of that, as the greater number of "balanced" possible classes in competitive, the more interesting it becomes, and the more important strategy and risk taking becomes.
 
I would think 2H's will always be somewhat limited simply because of ranged weapons. That's the main reason you nearly always need a shield in competitive.
 
Lord Rich said:
Schiester said:
I'm sick of garbage animations and the same old swipe left swing left swipe right swing right. I hope they don't copy and paste from warband but unfortunately that's what it looks like. I want different fighting styles. Of course fanboys are fine with unrealistic rehashed garbage which sickens me. I just don't understand how people want the same old combat system we have seen in literally every other mount and blade game. I want some evolution. Some progress to show from 2008-2015. Something new. Like seriously the series hadn't changed from 2008-2011 which is fine to me. I mean c'mon though, its 2015. Time to step up Taleworlds.

There was quite a lot of change from the original to warband actually. Tons of mechanics were added and like a good sequel, it iterated on the success of the previous game. Bannerlord is going to continue that by the looks of it, keeping the core (and very successful) mechanics the same and making more minor adjustments and additions. What you seem to want is an entirely different game.
I don't want an entirely new game. I want some realism and refinement.
 
My thoughts.
I think that it is to early to make a conclusions about combat system. For me, it looks that the combat system still not implemented. Just it uses warband system as placeholder. May be im wrong. And if i wrong, I still like warband combat system. It was very innovative. May be the combat system was not 100% original, but yet it incorporates, adjusts  and perfectly blends the best of the pre-existing combat system. I'll be glad to see the further evolution of ideas of meele combat. And for me, right direction is not Chivalry or WoTR - there are just bad clones of warband combat system. I personaly like the ideas of exanima\sui generis.
 
Schiester said:
Lord Rich said:
Schiester said:
I'm sick of garbage animations and the same old swipe left swing left swipe right swing right. I hope they don't copy and paste from warband but unfortunately that's what it looks like. I want different fighting styles. Of course fanboys are fine with unrealistic rehashed garbage which sickens me. I just don't understand how people want the same old combat system we have seen in literally every other mount and blade game. I want some evolution. Some progress to show from 2008-2015. Something new. Like seriously the series hadn't changed from 2008-2011 which is fine to me. I mean c'mon though, its 2015. Time to step up Taleworlds.

There was quite a lot of change from the original to warband actually. Tons of mechanics were added and like a good sequel, it iterated on the success of the previous game. Bannerlord is going to continue that by the looks of it, keeping the core (and very successful) mechanics the same and making more minor adjustments and additions. What you seem to want is an entirely different game.
I don't want an entirely new game. I want some realism and refinement.
As someone with 2000 hours on warband (WFAS and WSE inc) I am what one might call a fanboy. The way the combat is atm is great imo but I do share a few gripes. However the animations are not one of them. Im sure the ones shown in the gameplay are just placeholder too, like warband beta the animations were different in the side swings of the 1h I think and used to be the same as original mount and blade. There is however problem with changing the animations drastically however, the visial ques would be complete ****. Most historical european medival and dark age fighting was also not a set of beautiful cinematic duels yet your problem is with how swings look and therefore the entire thing is not realsitic? For there to be a game to exist certian choices have to be made, such as the although not historical but very obvious attack and block animations. To be honest I would've been happy if taleworlds gave warband a new engine and left it at that but there have already been a tonne of suprise additions such as the weapon crafting (although im kinda a multiplayer guy). To me I am getting an entirely new game, but its a mount and blade game. Its combat system is unique (We dont talk about War of the Roses here) and pretty well refined as is. If we polish it too hard the gold plating will rub away.
 
trot888 said:
blackmamba24 said:
i find it really amusing and funny at the same time about some people whining and *****ing about how "bad" and its just a copy and paste from warband regarding bannerlord's combat... remember guys its still a WORK IN PROGRESS.. comeback and start whining that Bonerlord's combat has no improvements from Warband when we get to end of beta.. we all know that from then and now, alot could happen.. and i'm not going to be surprised that when beta arrives, you'll see a somewhat different combat mechanics from what you've seen from the video..

We're going off interviews. Sure, we'd take the videos we've seen into account, but there's also INTERVIEWS. We're not *****ing, we're having a discussion and stating facts. This is from the interview:

"Q: You have done a great job, improving the combat system from M&B to WB. Between M&B's horizontal slashes and WB's more florid animations-in which you have added the kick feature-there is a gulf. How do you plan to proceed with M&B2? Will it be simple evolution, or do you consider to completely transform the hit and parry system?
A: We are re-doing everything again, we are not using anything from the old games. As for the game mechanics, I know for sure we are going to work on the parry system. We implemented it into the later versions of Warband. We are also rewriting all the animations for blocking, for example. Blocking was nice, but you know, was a little “blocky”, back then. There are some attacks that you can’t just stop with an upper block, you have to divert it, we are taking care of stuff like that. It’s going to be an evolution, as you said, not a revolution. The combat system is going to be essentially the same, but it’s going to be improved. A lot. We changed programming language and everything…"

Did they give a reason for changing the parry system? Its simplistic but the timing required in a high level fight can sometimes be masterful. I think it works fine and think parrys/chambers are very satisfying to do. Especially when fighting people who arent fast enough to deal with them, it forces them into a different play style. Warband combat especialy on mass is about dealing with the weaker players quickly which something like a parry does, so to outnumber the enemy and give your weaker players an advantage as they are maybe more effective 2v1 as a supporting role vs a competent enemy.

Changing the parry to something that diverts an attack seams like it takes away one of the tools a player can use to kill somone and means its more a defencive ability. Because of this whats the advantage of using a smaller faster weapon if it will get crushed through by more weapons which is what the interview implies. So as someone with a larger higher damage weapon I dont have to utilise this mechanic in order to be effective. So the person with the smaller weapon has to hit more times and parry often in order to defeat someone who might just one hit you with a greatsword.

Im sure the above is not the case or atleast to the extent as described. The parry sytem for me is fine :smile:
 
Dryykon said:
I'd imagine "diverting" attacks simply means the animation changes, and not how you block with the mouse. (Four directions seems the logical limit, it would be strange to surpass that.) But if what we saw in the video was indeed a weapons crushing through a dagger block, heavy weapons might crush through some weapon's that aren't heavy enough to divert (let alone outright block) them.

If that's the case, 2h weapons might have some advantage for competitive, and make them more viable. I'm in favor of that, as the greater number of "balanced" possible classes in competitive, the more interesting it becomes, and the more important strategy and risk taking becomes.
From a realism standpoint, "crushing through" blocks makes no sense. Tip heavy weapons are actually pretty easy to parry because the moment your parrying item (which can in fact be a dagger) comes in contact with, let's say, a hammer, you've got more control over the hammer than the guy wielding it. Your hand is gonna be far closer to the hammer's center of gravity than the other guy's, the sheer difference in leverage means he can't do anything to stop you from moving his weapon out of the way.
Here's an explanation from a HEMA guy.
https://youtu.be/aQBds6ZYERE?t=5m47s

So from a purely realism standpoint, if you have a dagger with a crossguard you should be able stop a maul. Hell, if you consider how slow a maul is you could probably do it with your bare hands. The whole thing wouldn't be anything different for swords against daggers. Swords aren't really heavy in the first place, and the lever mechanics are still in the dagger user's favor. The difficulty isn't in the weight in that case, the problem would more be actually catching the sword with your dagger because swords are hella agile.
This is just realism of course - it doesn't have to be like real life. Just something to consider.
 
SoothSayerSaxon said:
Schiester said:
Lord Rich said:
Schiester said:
I'm sick of garbage animations and the same old swipe left swing left swipe right swing right. I hope they don't copy and paste from warband but unfortunately that's what it looks like. I want different fighting styles. Of course fanboys are fine with unrealistic rehashed garbage which sickens me. I just don't understand how people want the same old combat system we have seen in literally every other mount and blade game. I want some evolution. Some progress to show from 2008-2015. Something new. Like seriously the series hadn't changed from 2008-2011 which is fine to me. I mean c'mon though, its 2015. Time to step up Taleworlds.

There was quite a lot of change from the original to warband actually. Tons of mechanics were added and like a good sequel, it iterated on the success of the previous game. Bannerlord is going to continue that by the looks of it, keeping the core (and very successful) mechanics the same and making more minor adjustments and additions. What you seem to want is an entirely different game.
I don't want an entirely new game. I want some realism and refinement.
As someone with 2000 hours on warband (WFAS and WSE inc) I am what one might call a fanboy. The way the combat is atm is great imo but I do share a few gripes. However the animations are not one of them. Im sure the ones shown in the gameplay are just placeholder too, like warband beta the animations were different in the side swings of the 1h I think and used to be the same as original mount and blade. There is however problem with changing the animations drastically however, the visial ques would be complete ****. Most historical european medival and dark age fighting was also not a set of beautiful cinematic duels yet your problem is with how swings look and therefore the entire thing is not realsitic? For there to be a game to exist certian choices have to be made, such as the although not historical but very obvious attack and block animations. To be honest I would've been happy if taleworlds gave warband a new engine and left it at that but there have already been a tonne of suprise additions such as the weapon crafting (although im kinda a multiplayer guy). To me I am getting an entirely new game, but its a mount and blade game. Its combat system is unique (We dont talk about War of the Roses here) and pretty well refined as is. If we polish it too hard the gold plating will rub away.
Tldr please.
 
Schiester said:
Tldr please.
Stop whining about how **** the game is and make suggestions about how to improve it, if it's so bad.
Clearly you have a very deep understanding of the combat to be such a vocal critic.
 
Rallix said:
Schiester said:
Tldr please.
Stop whining about how **** the game is and make suggestions about how to improve it, if it's so bad.
Clearly you have a very deep understanding of the combat to be such a vocal critic.
I have made mentions of improvement in other threads. Please don't be simple minded.
 
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