Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.

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DanAngleland

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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You already can move it to the left simply by turning left, as I pointed out, so unless you haven't found the key above TAB that allows you to check around your avatar, there isn't a problem. Getting shot at from the left? You turn to face the left. An enemy trying to circle to your left to swing around your shield? You turn to your left and hey presto, your shield is again covering you. Could you spell out to me exactly what you envisage doing with your shield that isn't covered in the game? I can't imagine why you would want to move your shield to the side independently of the direction you are facing.
 

Desideratus

Count
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It's called the tilde key, and no, that is not the point. The tilde key is used (...Probably) if you're not in any danger. Since when have you ever decided to press the tilde key when you're being attacked? And you can't say 'when i'm blocking' anymore because blocking would now require more focus than just holding M2
 

DanAngleland

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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The toggle key idea was just a response to what you said about having the mouse do two different things at once; I was being pedantic in addressing an issue that I considered non-existent but I am not actually proposing that we need to make blocking more complicated, all I want is to remove the forcefield.

We can already do things to help against archers, we can strafe and throw weapons to distract them, we can move the shield up and down slightly- unless you are running straight at the enemy without strafing, and they are under no pressure from any of your teammates, they are very unlikely to hit your feet even without the forcefield. It would just mean players not being so lazy and having those silly situations where an archer is aiming well and shooting at a carefree enemy running straight at them, or when players are struck at from almost behind but the weapon catches the forcefield.

I altered my previous post before you responded so shall repeat this question: Could you spell out to me exactly what you envisage doing with your shield that isn't covered in the game? I can't imagine why you would want to move your shield to the side independently of the direction you are facing.
 

Desideratus

Count
WBWF&SNW
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Alright here we go - Since clarity is always good and I probably wasn't clear before:

Removing the forcefield on shields requires that the ability to move the shield around be implemented. I need to be able to cover my feet and my head from various missiles like someone chucking a rock at my head. This also needs to be done without restricting my view and needs to be done as quickly as it can. Whether or not it will likely happen is irrelevant - if it can happen, it will, and it will be used and abused as much as possible. If nothing like this is implemented, any shield that doesn't extend all the way down to the feet are totally useless against archers.

If you are going to implement a method that outright requires that you move your shield independently of your character, it will most likely include using the mouse to direct the shield.

Forcefully restricting movement of a character when they are doing this is bad, but as I see it there is no other alternative besides creating an all new set of keys to determine where the shield moves. This is also bad.

So shields should stay as they are until we can think of a better solution.
 

DanAngleland

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Well, first of all I really disagree that removing the forcefield requires the ability to move the shield around more. As I said it is not easy to hit the feet unless the target is stationary or coming straight at you. As for protecting the head, we already can lift it up several inches over the head. You can't hold it directly above the head, which would be cool to do, but I don't think I've ever found the degree to which we can lift it up in Warband inadequate, even when being shot at from walls. In fact when you are looking directly ahead, back straight and facing an opponent's head, your shield already reaches over the top of your head. In first person this is a little irritating and I actually posted a while ago that I would prefer the eyes to be peeping over the shield in this standard posture. Leaning back to cover the head looks a little strange but it does the job.

Also, how do you cover the feet with a shield in real life? Short of crouching/half standing, you can't do it without exposing your head and shoulders, though a semi-crouch walk would be a neat feature. If you could bend the knees a bit and advance at a slower pace it would be fairly realistic.

I'll just accept that we disagree on this
and that I am right  :shifty:
 

Dasvi2018

Grandmaster Knight
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Ok it appears we hit a wall here.

Apparently there are 2 types of M&B Players

1) The type that enjoys the combat system and gameplay of M&B and wants to master it
2) The type that likes the roleplaying aspect of M&B and therefore will like realism and using authentic movesets, armor, weapons, formation etcetc.

Type 1 wants a more refined combat system without overhauling it
Type 2 wants to overhaul it so it better fits their roleplaying spectrum (or reality)

That is why such arguements never end, the goals are different

What TW should do for Bannerlord is weigh the proposals of each side equally and decide which ones would benefit both. Tough job but I trust TW.

Just end it there mates, REMEMBER, we only have 10 seconds of gameplay revealed, we have no basis for the combat system.
Your proposed changes are suggestions. The best of suggestions should have no opposition (unless of course TW agrees). Yours have. So....stahp
 

Lord Rich

Grandmaster Knight
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DanAngleland said:
Well, first of all I really disagree that removing the forcefield requires the ability to move the shield around more. As I said it is not easy to hit the feet unless the target is stationary or coming straight at you.

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There are plenty of rangers who can do it consistently while you are moving or sometimes even dodging. It's well within their capability and they do it regularly.

If anything we need more of a forcefield than we have now because if your class has low shield skill it can be a pretty horrible little game playing 'guess which end of the body the ranger will shoot'. It's really one of the worst mechanics in the game that a ranger can hit through your only means of defence head on and you have absolutely no ways of countering. Especially considering the mechanics of bolts going through shields or projectiles breaking shields already exist.
 

Kragen

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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Lord Rich said:
DanAngleland said:
Well, first of all I really disagree that removing the forcefield requires the ability to move the shield around more. As I said it is not easy to hit the feet unless the target is stationary or coming straight at you.

...
There are plenty of rangers who can do it consistently while you are moving or sometimes even dodging. It's well within their capability and they do it regularly.

If anything we need more of a forcefield than we have now because if your class has low shield skill it can be a pretty horrible little game playing 'guess which end of the body the ranger will shoot'. It's really one of the worst mechanics in the game that a ranger can hit through your only means of defence head on and you have absolutely no ways of countering. Especially considering the mechanics of bolts going through shields or projectiles breaking shields already exist.
Sarranid inf vs Vaegir archer ... :meh:
 

DanAngleland

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Lord Rich said:
DanAngleland said:
Well, first of all I really disagree that removing the forcefield requires the ability to move the shield around more. As I said it is not easy to hit the feet unless the target is stationary or coming straight at you.

...
There are plenty of rangers who can do it consistently while you are moving or sometimes even dodging. It's well within their capability and they do it regularly.

If anything we need more of a forcefield than we have now because if your class has low shield skill it can be a pretty horrible little game playing 'guess which end of the body the ranger will shoot'. It's really one of the worst mechanics in the game that a ranger can hit through your only means of defence head on and you have absolutely no ways of countering. Especially considering the mechanics of bolts going through shields or projectiles breaking shields already exist.
Your rangers are no doubt amongst the best archers that play the game, no? I'm also wondering what shields you use- I've often shot at people coming straight at me with Nord round shields, not even the Huscarl one, and not got a single shot past the shield despite looking at the feet. In fact I can't remember the last time I aimed at the feet and it didn't hit the shield, it is probably more than a year. And that is from someone who used to play as an archer loads and has always been pretty good at it, leading people consistently without crosshairs (though I use them for xbow).
 

_Osiris_

Baron
WBNWWF&SVC
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hell even i can shoot the feet of inf or the head with an xbow if they hold the shield a little wrong and im not even a poor ranger (im awful)

I hope the ranged mechanics change a little for bannerlord because i have no idea how you would cope the with current top rangers if they get much better :grin:
 

Lord Rich

Grandmaster Knight
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Top rangers probably covers dozens of people, I wouldn't be surprised if most clans have at least someone capable of doing it relatively reliably. I certainly don't think it's some ultra high end thing either and seems pretty straight forward to learn once you know which class/shield combinations you can easily shoot through.

Also round shield and huscarl are the same size, it makes no difference to blocking area. Only shield size and shield skill affect that. So factions generally only have a choice between their infantry shields and their cav shields.
 

Shemaforash

Marquis
WB
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DanAngleland said:
Lord Rich said:
DanAngleland said:
Well, first of all I really disagree that removing the forcefield requires the ability to move the shield around more. As I said it is not easy to hit the feet unless the target is stationary or coming straight at you.

...
There are plenty of rangers who can do it consistently while you are moving or sometimes even dodging. It's well within their capability and they do it regularly.

If anything we need more of a forcefield than we have now because if your class has low shield skill it can be a pretty horrible little game playing 'guess which end of the body the ranger will shoot'. It's really one of the worst mechanics in the game that a ranger can hit through your only means of defence head on and you have absolutely no ways of countering. Especially considering the mechanics of bolts going through shields or projectiles breaking shields already exist.
Your rangers are no doubt amongst the best archers that play the game, no? I'm also wondering what shields you use- I've often shot at people coming straight at me with Nord round shields, not even the Huscarl one, and not got a single shot past the shield despite looking at the feet. In fact I can't remember the last time I aimed at the feet and it didn't hit the shield, it is probably more than a year. And that is from someone who used to play as an archer loads and has always been pretty good at it, leading people consistently without crosshairs (though I use them for xbow).
You play without crosshair, that pretty much shows what ur issue is lol
 

DanAngleland

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Shemaforash said:
You play without crosshair, that pretty much shows what ur issue is lol
It doesn't, because I am very accurate without it (plus I do use it with xbow), and of course I see where the arrow flies so know that it is aimed at the feet.  :smile:
 

Partizan_Rusi

Squire
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Shemaforash said:
You play without crosshair, that pretty much shows what ur issue is lol
You can play without crosshair in any game, just place a tiny dot at center on your monitor :]
Noobs these days...
 

Goker

Archduke
WBWF&SNW
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Partizan_Rusi said:
Shemaforash said:
You play without crosshair, that pretty much shows what ur issue is lol
You can play without crosshair in any game, just place a tiny dot at center on your monitor :]
Noobs these days...
I have a feeling that you don't even understand the point of this argument or what was quoted in your post.
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
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In real life, you'd be able to shift your shield around to block incoming projectiles. In that sense, the "invisible barrier" makes sense. Perhaps a simple "snap to" animation that shifted shield position to the edges of the total area covered by the shield, including the "invisible" bit, would look more realistic.

The alternative would be a slaughter. There'd have to be strict archer limits on casual servers, perhaps even for competitive. Else, competitive might look like a medieval style CS:GO match.
 

Shemaforash

Marquis
WB
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Goker said:
Partizan_Rusi said:
Shemaforash said:
You play without crosshair, that pretty much shows what ur issue is lol
You can play without crosshair in any game, just place a tiny dot at center on your monitor :]
Noobs these days...
I have a feeling that you don't even understand the point of this argument or what was quoted in your post.
Jesus christ, the idiocy on taleworlds must be at an all time high  :facepalm:
 

Lord Rich

Grandmaster Knight
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Dryykon said:
In real life, you'd be able to shift your shield around to block incoming projectiles. In that sense, the "invisible barrier" makes sense. Perhaps a simple "snap to" animation that shifted shield position to the edges of the total area covered by the shield, including the "invisible" bit, would look more realistic.

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Might look a little odd though, since the shield will have to move after the arrow has already landed.
 

Terrible_Swordsman

Master Knight
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Lord Rich said:
Dryykon said:
In real life, you'd be able to shift your shield around to block incoming projectiles. In that sense, the "invisible barrier" makes sense. Perhaps a simple "snap to" animation that shifted shield position to the edges of the total area covered by the shield, including the "invisible" bit, would look more realistic.

...
Might look a little odd though, since the shield will have to move after the arrow has already landed.
Also how would this work for more than one arrow coming at you at once, either your shield is a blur, or you'd die in that case no?
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
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I was merely speculating how to make the game more realistic. It would look hideous and glitchy and I'd prefer it the way it is now.
 
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